Anna Lee Fisher reflects on her career as an astronaut and how traveling to space helped her define her priorities. Then Max talks with Bob Iger about the impact he has had on the world as the CEO of Disney, how he has balanced personal relationships with the demands of that job, and how he plans to move on when he retires at the end of this year.
Know someone who should be on 70 Over 70? We’re looking for all types of stories and people to feature at the top of the show. To nominate yourself or someone else, email 70over70@pineapple.fm or call 302-659-7070 and tell us your name, age, where you’re from and what you want to talk about.
transcription
[PRE-ROLL]
[OPENING MONTAGE]
Madeleine Albright: I know this program is 70 Over 70, but I really wish I were younger. I wish I was 70…but, I am ready!
[THEME MUSIC STARTS]
William: I’m 72 years old.
Paula: I’m 75, miraculously enough.
Sandy: I am 83 years old.
Betty: I am 88 years old.
James: You know, I’m here at 92.
Lucia: I’ll be 94 in May.
Donalda: I’m 101 years old.
Anna Fisher: My name is Anna Lee Fisher. I live in Houston, and I’m about to be 72 in August.
[THEME MUSIC FADES OUT]
Anna Fisher: You know, as I look back on the way I made career decisions, um, when I was younger.
[MUSIC FADES IN]
Anna: I always like to emphasize that you have to just learn to figure out what it is that you want and you have to find your peace with who you are and what you've accomplished.
[MUSIC STARTS]
Anna: I wanted to be an astronaut ever since I was 12 years old, it was what I'd always dreamed about and many years later, when I found out that NASA was looking for astronauts for this new space shuttle program, um, I jumped at the chance. I was very fortunate to be in the first group of astronauts ever selected for the space shuttle program. And also in the first group of women ever selected for the U.S. program.
The hardest thing about launching into space was, of course, leaving my daughter Kristin, all you have to do is go back and look at video of rocket launches and see them blow up to-to-to know that there’s risk.
[MUSIC CONTINUES]
Anna: When I left to go into space from the moment the rockets ignite, it’s approximately 8 and half minutes, and in an instant, when those engines shut off, you are weightless. And just the colors of the Caribbean, for example, watching the clouds, looking at the mountains, looking at stars, looking at that incredible view was unbelievable.
Well, after we returned from our space flight and went back to-to Houston, my first words to my husband was "It was all worth it." The risk of leaving Kristen, of leaving him, it was all worth it.
[MUSIC CONTINUES]
Anna: Within a month after we landed, the Challenger accident happened, and my husband and I realized that very quickly that it was going to be several years before we flew again. And so when my second daughter, Kara, was born, I decided at the time to take a leave of absence. I love my career. I love being an astronaut, but I always asked myself, you know, ‘what decisions would I regret at the end of my life’ and I did not want to regret not staying home with my girls while they were young. And, um, you know, I have friends that flew in space seven times. Would I have wanted to fly seven times? Of course. But, you know, life is full of tough choices. [laughs]
[MUSIC FADES OUT]
Anna: I firmly believe that sometimes you don't get your exact dream, but sometimes along the way you discover a different dream. You know, I only flew once, but nonetheless, I was still an astronaut and when I eventually did decide to go back to NASA, it-it turned out that I was really the right person at the right time to have a leadership role as chief of the space station. So for me, I found the right balance of my career, satisfaction, and my family. Now, for another person that might not have been the right balance, but I think you really need to find your own perspective and not be guided by what the outside world tells you is the right thing to do.
[THEME MUSIC FADES IN]
Anna: You have to find what is the right thing for you.
[THEME MUSIC CONTINUES]
Max: That was Anna Lee Fisher, and from Pineapple Street Studios, this is 70 Over 70, a show about making the most of the time we have left. I'm Max Linsky.
My guest this week is Bob Iger, the former CEO and current executive chairman of the Walt Disney company.
By basically any metric, Bob is one of the most successful CEOs in history. On his second day in the job, he proposed that Disney buy Pixar from Steve Jobs -- an acquisition no one thought was possible, and very few people thought was wise. That was followed by Marvel and Star Wars and, most recently, most of the Fox empire. By the time he stepped down as CEO last winter, Disney was worth about five times more than it was when he took over.
It’s a staggering run. But maybe even more impressive is where it started… at the very bottom of the ladder, moving furniture around on the sets of ABC soap operas. That was 47 years ago and he’s been with the company, in one role or another, ever since.
But on January 1st 2022, just a few months from now, Bob is going to leave Disney. He won’t stay on as a board member or as an advisor, he’s making a clean break. And while there was so much about his time leading Disney I was curious about, particularly how he balanced personal relationships with demands of a business that big, it’s what’s gonna come next for Bob that I wanted to understand.
[MUSIC FADES IN]
Max: How do you step off the stage when the lights have been that bright? What does it feel like to know that for the first time in decades you will no longer be the most powerful person in every room?
Basically, I wanted to know how after a job like that, you just go back to being yourself.
Bob Iger is 70 years old.
INTERVIEW
Max: Bob Iger, thanks for doing this.
Bob Iger: My pleasure.
Max: Can I ask you an Apple Watch question before we start?
Bob: Sure.
Max: Are you, like, uh, focused on the rings?
Bob: Yes.
Max: Do you care about it?
Bob: Very much. I'm very competitive, though.
Max: Do you change the goals?
Bob: No, I don't set any goals.
Max: You don't--so you just you close them out. But they're just the..sort of--
Bob: I don't set goals, but I'm ridiculously competitive with myself.
Max: I'm wired the exact same way, but I can't, uh, I don't know how high to set the goals.
Bob: I don't do that. But what I do is--this is today, by the way, that's pretty good.
Max: You already closed your...your ring?
Bob: I did. A 20 mile ride this morning.
Max: That's outrageous.
Bob: I thought that--maybe we should save this but-but we can go back to it that when-- that as I aged, I would become less neurotic about certain things [Max laughs]. I would care a little less. And I convinced myself that that is the case, but it's not evident in my behavior [Max laughs]. Somehow or another, I'm fooling myself into thinking that I'm not, in other words, what the hell is the difference if I don't work out on a given day? Like, right, right? One day.
Max: Yeah, it doesn't matter to anyone else, but--
Bob: But to me. But the neurotic me, somehow or another, has convinced myself that it's that if I don't work out, something's wrong or bad or whatever.
Max: Right. You fucked up somehow.
Bob: It's a terrible obsession.
Max: And, uh, exercise is a big part of your life?
Bob: Every day.
Max: Every day, twice a day is my understanding.
Bob: Well, with Covid, uh, there are some benefits to shut down and not commuting and not getting on a plane and flying someplace every week. So I have had more time and I've used it to exercise more. But mostly what I do is I'll take a long walk, there are hills in the neighborhood that I live in Southern California, so I can get a good between three and five mile walk in every evening--early evening.
Max: That connects to the first thing I wanted to ask you, which is I told a lot of people that I was going to do this interview and almost everyone was like, “he, he can't possibly be 70’. And so I wonder what-what it was like turning 70 for you.
Bob: Pretty uneventful. I do get a sense that things are happening or-or that life is passing me by at a faster pace. But other than that, turning 70 was no different than turning 69 and frankly, turning 60 wasn't a big event, nor was 50. And it's just not--I've never been obsessed with either aging or milestones.
Max: The thing you were saying earlier about how time is moving in a different way for you now– how does that work? How does that feel? How is time speeding up?
Bob: Well, it mostly I feel it in looking backward that the time between a variety of different intervals seems to be compressed. So when I think about 60, it seems like weeks ago that I had dinner with friends and family for my sixtieth birthday [Max laughs] and the decade passed like the snap of a finger. It was an active decade for me and a lot happened in my life, but, um, the interval feels very short to me. It seemed even more profound this time around. And I've wondered whether that is a function of aging, in some form, whether older people feel like time passes quickly, mostly because we're looking back. I think as people age, maybe you end up looking more behind than ahead, because, like, in fairness, there's less time ahead than there was behind.
Max: Right? Well, I think that's part of what I was wondering is like, is-is that time sort of feeling shorter because you're also aware that there's less of it?
Bob: Yeah, it also just may be a function of past versus the future. I think if you ask any young person, you know, tell me about the next five years, it's an eternity to them--or even someone starting out in college and they think about graduating. It's-- that's so far out. Yet, when they graduate, they look back, it's like yesterday that they were freshmen.
Max: Right.
Bob: And I think that just in some form or another, as people age, that that sense of compression of things happening faster gets even more profound. Oh, by the way, also turning 70 in a pandemic. So, I'm not a believer in big parties anyway for myself. So if there were no pandemic, I'm not sure we would have done much, but when you can't really go out and do anything [both laugh], it makes it even less meaningful in a way.
Max: Why don't you like big parties for yourself?
Bob: I don't mind going to other people's parties, I just never like going to my own.
Max: Do you not like being, like, the center of attention?
Bob: Ah, I'm the center of attention a lot and in my work, and I think in all likelihood because of that, I'd prefer not to be the center of attention any more than I have to be.
Max: Hmm. I read your book, and there's a line that ends a chapter that basically says ‘anything that can remind you that you're not the center of attention is something to hold on to’. In the job that you've had, my assumption is that for most of the day, for most of the last 15 years, you have been the center of every room you've been in. How do you not let yourself feel like the world’s revolving around you?
Bob: Well, by reminding yourself constantly that you're just passing through, that it's all being borrowed or leased, and it's not owned and not owned forever. And I've been mindful of that for quite a long time, in part because I watched, uh, my predecessor at Disney, Michael Eisner, who was the CEO for 21 years, leave that role. And, you know, right before my eyes and very proximate to me. And when you witness that, you see suddenly someone going from what you call the ‘king of the world] position to a civilian, as I joke often--when I'm a civilian, you know.
Max: Yeah.
Bob: Um, and suddenly there's no--you don't have your office, you don't have your title, you don't have the support system that exists to enable the CEO of a large global company to manage their-their lives. And so I've been very mindful of the fact that one day -- now in this case, one day, very, very soon -- the lease will be up and, um, all of that will be gone.
Max: Is that sort of relationship with the lease, does that like, uh, does that fluctuate like were there moments where you were less connected to that idea or or more connected to it?
Bob: I've always been connected to the idea and I'm and I'm actually quite comfortable with it. The one thing that I do feel, though, is, you know, you-- to have a job like this and to do it well, you have to be thoroughly engaged in it. It does become very much not only a part of your life, but almost your life for that period of time. Um, and so every once in a while I get forlorn about, hey, they know this--I won't be doing this. We have a movie coming out in December called West Side Story, it’s a remake-- Steven Spielberg's remake of the famous West Side Story of the early 60s. And I watched the film a few times, once with him, engaged heavily in dialogue with him about it. And I think it's probably the last movie that we will release while I'm employed at the Walt Disney Company. And when I think about that, I think, wow, you know, there won't be another one for me after that. And there's a sadness to that, about letting go of that experience. But I'm completely prepared, at least so I believe, [Max laughs] but we'll see on January 1 for it all to end. And I think, again, because there was an inevitability to that--you know, that's a whole other thing is it would be very easy to have the job and believe it's yours forever. Well, that's just impractical.
Max: Is it easy to believe that?
Bob: Yeah, because you can get very, very used to all of the--they call them trappings-- all,you know, and it's the attention and it’s the excitement and, you know, the adrenaline rush that it represents and that sense that you're the center of the universe and you've got all this power and influence and sure. Easily could happen.
Max: I was sort of waiting for you to say power and I think that's part of what I'm interested in is like, how do you think about your relationship to this power that you've held for 15 years?
Bob: I don't really care at all about the power.
Max: Is that easy to say because you have all of it?
Bob: Possibly. I don't know. I've had it for a while, I guess. I don't know. I--that's been completely meaningless to me. But other than the, let's say, the power to be a force of good in the world, there's been no other aspect of power that has been meaningful to me at all in this whole experience. Nothing. Nothing...you know, and I guess with that, you know, the power to influence people's careers. You know, the power to give people opportunities. Of course, that has value. You know, I always used to laugh, they list the most powerful people in Hollywood and, um, it's hard when you- when you grow up in this business, which I did, and you see those lists every year and you think, ‘oh, wow, look at that person there. Number one…’ and then suddenly you find yourself atop that list [both laugh]. You know, and you discover quickly it's totally meaningless.
Max: That-that kind of thing just can't make you whole.
Bob: No, there's no satisfaction.
Max: No satisfaction.
Bob: No. When you look in the mirror in the morning and you see your title on your forehead, it's over. That's not who you are. It's not--the title. Yes, you're given that title while you have the job. But you're if that's what you are, then you're in deep trouble if you believe, you know, if the title precedes you. [Right, right.] And unfortunately or maybe sometimes fortunately, because it can have some value, when you walk into a room and everybody ‘Oh, there’s..’ they don't say there’s Bob Iger. They say ‘there's the CEO of Disney’. Or at least they tie the two together. I'm not the CEO anymore, by the way. [Right.]
[MUSIC FADES IN]
Bob: But I'm quite mindful of that. So what? [Max laughs] That's going to end so...
Max: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[MUSIC FADES OUT]
[BREAK/ MIDROLL]
[MUSIC FADES IN]
[MUSIC FADES OUT]
Max: In your book, there’s lots and lots of themes and sort of consistent ideas, and what we're talking about is-is one of them, I think, but another one is about risk. And the way that I understand your time as CEO was-was that it was defined by risks. But there's this moment, what, like four months into being CEO, where you buy Pixar, which is a deal you have to, like, convince the entire board to take seriously. People thought it was nuts. Certainly, like, your legacy depends on that, right? I'm interested in...in this, like, next stage of your life that's coming on January 1st, whether there are going to be risks available to you in this stage of your life.
Bob: I--actually I don't know. Um, right now, the-the canvas is completely blank, unpainted.
Max: You don't have plans?
Bob: No, I don't. I don't. Mostly, interestingly enough, the-the risks that I’m mindful of are more reputational in nature is that as I have many opportunities to associate myself with other companies and new businesses and new ventures. It's really making sure that I don't put my reputation on the line in that process ‘cause one thing that I am both proud of and that I really value, that I have a...I have a good reputation. And I---that's it's interesting. It's not title that has value to me. Reputation does.
Max: How would you articulate what your reputation is?
Bob: I think it’s a collection of things. The success of Disney during my tenure. I think I was able to do it by showing a lot of respect for people. It's not that everybody has liked me and I've had some tough relationships along the way and had to fire people, for instance. But, I think overall people would say that I'm a decent person and I like that. I'm not just a hardass. [Max laughs] Um, I think probably more than anything is that I've exhibited an interest in and I care about people, particularly those that work for me.
Max: I mean, I guess the answer the question is no, but is being nice and being decent, is that at all at odds with running the biggest media company in the world?
Bob: Wasn't for me.
Max: You must, over the years, you must have known a lot of incredibly successful assholes.
Bob: Yeah. [Max laughs] None that I can name. Sure. I met some of them.
Max: Oh, I'm not asking you to name names, but I've encountered some incredibly successful assholes in my life and I believe that they think that those two things are fundamentally connected.
Bob: Right, which is why they're assholes [both laugh] I mean, but I don't --I've never quite understood that. Like, what good does that do them? So there's, they're tough and they, what, hold no, they take no prisoners. What's the-- I mean, no one roots for them. In fact, everybody roots against them. How is that good? I wanted people to root for me. And there are times when you, in these jobs with this responsibility, you have to make choices, make decisions that sometimes can inflict pain on other people. I mean, severing someone, firing someone, as a for instance.
Max: How did you fire people?
Bob: I tried to fire people by having as much empathy as possible. Tried to be very very honest with people, but not mean. Um, just to give you an idea, someone comes into your office, they may not even know why they're there. So I tried to cut to the chase. I try to be very straight-forward with them. Listen, come in. You're in here for-for a meeting that’s not going to be pleasant for you. The other thing I've noticed people do is this; they'll say to someone that they're going to fire. This is really difficult for me. How--why do you say that to someone who you're going to fire? It's going to be much more difficult for them. So it's understanding that. I never say that, boy, this is really hard for me. [Max laughs] I will say there are few times, not in the very recent past, because it's been a while, but when I said to myself, after I let someone go, I hope this is the last time I have to do this. I hated doing that. Um, I think I actually scared myself because I think I got better at it along the way. But it’s not a badge of honor to be great at firing people. And actually I then felt guilty when I reached the conclusion of hey I’ve really gotten good at this, you know.
Max: What did getting better at it look like? Like if it didn't get easier, what did--
Bob: Well, getting better at it was-was, first of all, doing it on a timely basis, not procrastinating. [Yeah] I did that once. I fired someone at Disney on a Friday and, um, they didn't have to leave right away, so they came to work on Monday he said he asked me a question. “I'm just curious why did you fire me on Friday?” And I said, why are you asking? And he said, “it's the worst day to fire somebody because you then have the weekend and there's no distraction,” and I- I paused for a minute. I said, let me tell you why I fired you on Friday. I intended to fire you last week. I came in on Monday and I chickened out. On Tuesday, I chickened out. Same thing happened on Wednesday and Thursday. On Friday it’s the last day I had and I promised myself I was going to do it last week I ran out of time, so I apologized, but I was--it was true. Who looks forward to that? So getting good at it was getting to it, trying really hard to put yourself in their shoes. I mean even to the point where I realized I’m-I’m sitting across from someone who is sitting in a chair and I’m thinking what it would be like to sit in the chair and be told you no longer have a job at a company you may have loved, at a company you may have loved.
Max: That idea, how it feels to be in the other seat, and particularly trying to figure out, like, the story that the other person is telling themselves. That’s a thing that comes up in the book too. Like Steve Jobs… Over and over again, you were willing to meet people where they were. But there was another piece of it that I was struck by, which it felt like at several moments you held your own desires or fears or concerns really close to the vest. Do you think that those those things were connected at all? By which I mean like you were so focused on what the other person wanted that you also knew it would be in some way to your advantage to not let other people know where you were at.
Bob: No, no. I think each situation has been different, but putting yourself in someone else's shoes or head and understanding where they're coming from, particularly as it related to, since you used them as examples, the acquisitions, um, it was trying to figure out what was the best way to convince those people to sell their companies to us. And the one, the best way to do it, aside from what became the obvious in each case, was what are the economics is to also figure out is there other emotions that need to be that you need to focus on. Is there other value.
Max: I mean, at some point in the scale on which you were playing, like no one really needs the money.
Bob: No, correct. But sometimes, even if you don't need it, you may want more of it.
Max: Sure and it's connected to a thing that feels like very, very present in all those rooms, which is ego.
Bob: Yeah.
Max: Does that feel off to you?
Bob: No, there's ego, too, but there was nothing in it. There was no ego at all on the table with-with Steve, for instance, and selling Pixar. None.
Max: Can you tell the story of that walk that you guys took right before the announcement?
Bob: Sure. We announced that we were buying Pixar in the early part of 2006, it was either late January, first week in February, and we were making the announcement from Pixar, the Pixar headquarters in Emeryville, California. And so I flew up with the team from Disney to make the announcement, put the announcement out and do a press conference and also meet with all Pixar employees. And obviously, Steve was there, too. We were making the announcement when the stock market closed, so 1 o’clock West Coast time and about an hour before about 12, I was in a conference room at Pixar prepping with my team. And Steve came to the door and said, “Have you got a minute? Can we take a walk?” and I looked at my general counsel who was sitting with me, and I said, uh oh, what is this mean. The moment of dread that I had was that he was going to back out of the deal. Steve was capable of doing some mercurial things. And so we went for a walk and there was a bench--there's a nice walking path at Pixar and there was a nice little bench--wooden bench. And we sat down on the bench and he actually had his arm behind me. And we had a nice relationship at that point already. It got a lot--we became a lot closer as the years passed, but I had no idea where he was going. And he looked me in the eye and he said, “I'm going to tell you something only my wife and my doctors know,” And I said, “What's that?” And he said, “My cancer is back.” And I asked him, “why are you telling me this?” And he said, “I'm telling you this because I want to give you a chance to back out of the deal.” He was-he was going to become a member of the Disney board and our largest shareholder. And I said, “Steve, I-I don't think that that's an excuse to back out of the deal. I don't think that's a reason.” And of course, in the back of my mind, this is in the post Enron world and I was very mindful of what responsibility I had might have had to shareholders to be fully forthcoming and transparent, that if Steve potentially not being around was material to the deal, was-would I be committing a fraud of sorts on our shareholders? But because I had pledged confidentiality, it's not like I could ask anybody for advice. So I asked him--and this is all happening in very real time. It's now--the clock is ticking. It's 30 minutes to go time, till this press release is going out and we're 15 minutes away from the building [right] at this point.
Max: Also, by far, the biggest move you've ever made in your career.
Bob: It was a 7.3 billion dollar acquisition. Yeah, [Max laughs] it was a big move, so I asked him a few other questions. I asked him specifically about the cancer. I asked him what his doctors were saying about the prognosis and he said “there's a 50/50 chance I'm going to live for five years”. And in describing it, he said, you know, my son Reid is going to graduate from high school in, I think he said, four years and he said, I'm going to be there. And when he said that there was some he had a--you know, Steve was just such a force. There was a resolve, there was a commitment to living that was so powerful that I just felt comfortable saying to him, “Steve, there's no way we're backing out of this deal. Let's go back to--and let's announce it.” This is inside me at this point and, um, you know, there are a few things that have happened in my life in business, really, that were momentous moments, and there's always something that happens around the same time that causes me to have one of a kind of a public face and a private face. An exterior and interior sort of. And I watched what was going on inside me that day, as excited as I seemed outside, was I was just kind of a mess. One, I wasn't sure I was even doing the right thing. Secondly, I obviously felt terrible for him. I mean, it was a very emotional moment for him to make the decision to tell me was a huge thing. [Yeah.] You know, I considered Steve not only, you know, business colleague, but a really close friend and losing him was very difficult because it was just a relationship I never expected. And, you know, later in life, you don't expect--you expect to make some friends and a lot of acquaintances, but you don't really expect to make a--forge a really deep friendship with someone, you know, in your 50s. At least I didn't. And yet I had and it represented a huge loss. There was something almost more powerful in the relationship because it was such a good--such a strong relationship and yet such a brief relationship.
Max: I think that's why I wanted you to tell that story was that moment sitting on the bench and there's just so much going on in that moment.
Bob: Yeah. By the way, what I didn’t tell you, when we walked back to the Pixar building for the release--for someone to hit send and a release goes out to the world, and then suddenly the two of us are standing in front of cameras and there's a press conference. [Right.] And he and I never said a word to one another from the moment we got up from the bench ‘til we were standing in front of the press. We never--we never talked.
Max: Woah.
Bob: And I went back and I remember my team going like, you know, what was that about? [both laugh]
Max: Like, is he asking for another billion dollars [laughs].
Bob: I said, you know, I looked at my watch. At that point, I think we're five minutes away from this thing and said, everything is fine. You know, it's-- it was a very meaningful charged, kind of, moment.
Max: Yeah ans I guess-I guess the thing I wanted to ask was about how you absorb that charge? You know, like another aspect of your reputation is that you are in control, that you're calm. How do you do that, like how do you--how do you hold everything that's going on in that moment? Still deliver the speech you need to give?
Bob: You know, I think when you lead and to lead effectively, you are always balancing frequently countervailing dynamics. You know, for instance, in a crisis, you've always got to collect knowledge and be deliberate, but you have to act with haste or speed or on a timely basis, one example of that. And I think one of the dynamic or opposite dynamics you have to deal with is you've got to manage a public persona and a private. You know, you've got toappear one way, even if you're feeling another deep within inside you. It's compartmentalizing, I guess, in some form. And sometimes it becomes really acute, meaning the, uh, the contrast between one side and the other is extreme. But you don't have the luxury, really, of not not contending with that and you've got to figure out that, I guess it's a balance.
Max: Yeah, I guess I'm just kind of wondering how, like, you don't like, um, you know, at some point just kind of, like, fall over from the colliding all the time.
Bob: You don't have the luxury. You know, you've got to get up every day and put the uniform on and go out on the field and you know [both laugh] play your best game.
Max: You don't actually have to, though.
Bob: You...there's a lot expected of you. If you're running a company as large as Disney that is on a world stage, you're responsible for so much that you don't have the luxury of ever really turning it off.
Max: What do you mean? Turning what off?
Bob: The whole thing. In other words, you can't distance yourself. You can't, um, I guess you can call a brief time out [Max laughs]--using an analogy, but it's very brief. There's just no such thing as taking yourself out of the action.
Max: Unless you take yourself out of the action.
Bob: Well, I'm doing that.
Max: Yeah.
Bob: But it's all or nothing. That's my point.
Max: Right. You can't--you can't be half in.
Bob: Not and do it right. Not be responsible, no. And I don't think people quite appreciate that. It's interesting thinking about it a little bit as it relates to the transition that I'm going through and thinking back on this experience, I became CEO. I was named in March of ‘05 and October 01, 2005. I stepped into the job and in reality, I've not had a day off since then. I know that I haven't. There's not one day when I didn't engage in work-related matters, and I'm not just talking about doing one email, I'm talking about not only feeling the responsibility, but engaging in something, doing the homework and connecting with people and being mindful of what's going on. In the world, that is, as it affects Disney and it does not stop. Which is, you know, one of the motivating forces behind my deciding to step down. Still-- I still have energy and I still was having fun, and I think I can say unequivocally that that things were still going well. Just time. Time to find time.
Max: Right, ‘cause time's getting shorter.
Bob: Go back to that. Yeah, I guess so.
Max: There are so few moments, virtually none in your book, where I found you regretful, like maybe this is zen in the art of running the Walt Disney Corporation. But do you have regrets?
Bob: I don't-- I don't have any regrets that caused me to either lose sleep or to distract me very much. Yeah, sure, there are some regrets, but they're not acute regrets. There are some.
Max: How's that possible?
Bob: Not to have regrets [yeah] or to have them [laughs]?
Max: Not to have them. I mean, I don't think if they don't keep you up at night and you don't worry about them very much. I don’t think they count.
Bob: Well I can't do anything about them. Sure look, if I all over again, would I do it differently? Probably not.
Max: Probably not.
Bob: It worked out OK.
Max: I wonder if that’s because there weren’t moments where you felt you didn’t live up that reputation that means so much to you. Maybe that’s what I’m asking, like, are there any moments where you weren’t the person you wanted to be.
Bob: Yeah sure. There are a few, I’m a human being. But none that I care to discuss.
Max: But also none that weigh on you too much.
Bob: No.
Max: Are you a spiritual person?
Bob: I'm not a big believer in things like everybody has a destiny and I'm not a religious person. I'm capable of spending quiet time with my thoughts. And-and there are other elements in my life, too, I guess I would put in the spiritual category, but not that--I can't define that for myself.
Max: I think I ask because you seem, um, very at peace.
Bob: I am at peace.
Max: So, uh, if you're at peace at 70, you're going to step away in full a couple of months from now, time's collapsing a little bit, what do you want out of what comes next?
Bob: Well, first of all, I'm extremely excited about having a blank canvas. I have not had one in my life, really. [Yeah.] I joke to people I haven't had a summer off since eighth grade.
Max: Is there anything daunting about that?
Bob: It's not daunting to me. I'm very excited about it. I will have to find things to do. I know enough about myself to know that I cannot go from whatever, 60 to zero in this case is like mock speed to zero with a snap of a finger, that that would be too jarring. That there would be things that will necessarily have to occupy my time. But I've talked to a few people that have gone through this transition, and I actually have spoken to a number of people recently about it and everyone's advice is pretty consistent. And that is, don't commit to too many things before you go.
Max: Don't fill up the canvas immediately.
Bob: No, because if one of the reasons to step down is so that you have a blank canvas and so you have time to either smell the roses or, you know, breathe the air and I talk often about, you know, not having this endless To-Do list. We talked earlier about, you know, being competitive. I am extremely competitive. That takes a huge amount of time, energy and thought. A lot. I know that, uh, there's a constancy of some kind of adrenaline generation within me to be as competitive as I am. I'm looking forward to being relieved of that and not caring about winning, for instance. So I would say right now, do I have some anxiety about it? Yes. But am I anxious about it? I mean deeply anxious or losing sleep? No. I'm actually far more curious. Now, I could end up a day later saying, what the heck did I do? [Max laughs] But I'm very curious about what it's going to be like. What will it be like when I don't have this title? Will it be exactly what I expect that I've been Bob Iger all along and I'm still going to be Bob Iger, and that title is truly meaningless? Maybe I'll discover afterwards that it actually did mean something. [Max laughs] I don't know.
Max: But you're excited to figure it out.
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Bob: Yeah, I'm excited to experience it. I hope I can figure it out.
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CREDITS
Max: 70 Over 70 is a production of Pineapple Street Studios and it’s produced by Jess Hackel.
Our associate producer is Janelle Anderson. Our editors are Maddy Sprung-Keyser and Joel Lovell. Research and additional reporting by Charley Locke.
Our mixers are Raj Makhija and Elliott Adler. And Jenna Weiss-Berman and I are the executive producers.
Our theme song is Like a Dream, by Francis and the Lights, and the music you’re listening to now is by Arthur Russell, who would have been 70 this year. Original music by Terence Bernardo. Additional music by Noble Kids, and music licensing by Dan Knishkowy.
Our cover art is by Maria Kalman, who’s 72 and our episode art is by Lynn Staley, she’s 73 and she’s also my mom.
Thank you, Anna Lee Fisher and thank you Bob Iger.
I'm Max Linsky. Thanks for listening.
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