Diedre Wolownick tells the story of how she became the oldest woman to climb El Capitan in Yosemite National Park. Then Max talks with Twiggy about her career as an international supermodel, how she thinks about that time in her life now, and why getting older doesn’t faze her.
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transcription
[PRE-ROLL]
[OPENING MONTAGE]
Madeleine Albright: I know this program is 70 Over 70, but I really wish I were younger. I wish I was 70…but, I am ready!
[THEME MUSIC STARTS]
William: I’m 72 years old.
Paula: I’m 75, miraculously enough.
Sandy: I am 83 years old.
Betty: I am 88 years old.
James: You know, I’m here at 92.
Lucia: I’ll be 94 in May.
Donalda: I’m 101 years old.
Dierdre Wolownick: My name is Dierdre Wolownick. I'm 70 years old and I live in Carmichael, California.
[THEME MUSIC FADES OUT]
Dierdre: So I'm the oldest woman to ever climb El Capitan in Yosemite. I was at 66 and I beat my record again at 70. The one lesson--we want to call it a lesson--that I've learned from climbing; most of our limits are self-imposed or imposed on us, by our society. And if you can ignore that, you can do anything.
[MUSIC STARTS]
Dierdre: If you had asked me, like, five or six years ago, would you like to climb El Cap? I would have laughed myself silly. El Capitan is the quintessential lifetime climb, like a piano player dreams of playing in Carnegie Hall or-or baseball player dreams of playing in-in the World Series, you know, and it's monstrously huge. It's three thousand two hundred feet straight up….and it’s incredibly daunting. And when I started, you know, the very first time, I knew it was going to be hard physically. What I didn't expect was the mental side of it.
[MUSIC CONTINUES]
Dierdre: I trained for 18 weeks, three days a week. The first day I would work on cardio and, uh, the other two days I would work on the fixed ropes that hang on El Cap on the east side and on the west side. But I had never been on this monolith, so the first time I went out to the woods around the base of the wall, there were all young guys out there and me [laughs]. And so they-- nobody really talked to me out there because they didn't really know what to make of me. You know, why is this old lady out here by herself [laughs]? And then they went up and disappeared, and I got on the rope. And I went up about 10-12 feet. And I did that for like several hours until I got to the top of this 200 foot pitch.
What I hadn't really noticed [laughs] was there was a knot in the rope.
[MUSIC PAUSES]
Dierdre: Danger. Danger. The rope could break.
[MUSIC CONTINUES]
Dierdre: That’s the worst and I knew that in the back of my mind. And so, I mean, I spent--I must have spent 40 minutes there, tears streaming down my face thinking, how the hell bells am I going to get past this spot? But, I had to teach myself how to push that aside. I had to calm myself down. I had to talk myself through that. I’m not gonna fall. I know how to do this. I tried to get control of the problem facing me, of my emotional reaction to it. It's a strange process of letting go and when I got down off the first rope, I was definitely a different person [laughs].
Fast-forward, like, 3 or 4 years, or whatever, um, I decided to go up El Cap again just to see if I still had it in me. The previous time we went up it and then came right back down it. This time I wanted to celebrate my 70th birthday on the top of El Cap.
I had moments on the slabs where I had my doubts-- a lot of doubts. But finally after six hours, I finally got to the top. And so I got up there and we had dinner and three bottles of champagne and little cakes and-and candles for the cake! And then we got to watch the sunset.
[MUSIC CONTINUES]
Dierdre: And I looked around and it was like, if I can do, you know, this wall or that wall or this climb or that climb or El Cap, I can do anything. And I know that now.
[MUSIC ENDS]
Dierdre: You know, 10 years ago, I thought I knew my limits. I kind of, you know that’s like, quote-un-quote knew this. Um, one I’m old [laughs] and my foot doesn’t work the way normal feet work. My toes don’t bend, but, um, doing this stuff, I-I've had to come face to face with, you know, who I am and what I can do. And…
[THEME MUSIC FADES IN]
Deirdre: And it's really, I guess, gratifying, satisfying to know that about yourself. And that will color the rest of my life.
Max Linsky: That was Dierdre Wolownick and from Pineapple Street Studios, this is 70 Over 70, a show about making the most of the time we have left. I'm Max Linsky.
[THEME MUSIC CONTINUES]
Max: My guest this week is Twiggy.
To understand Twiggy, you need to know about a 16 year old kid from suburban London named Lesley. That’s who walked into a fancy salon in January of 1966 — it was called Leonard of Mayfair — and got one of the most famous haircuts in the history of haircuts.
[MUSIC FADES OUT]
Max: Just a few months later, Lesley was Twiggy. And Twiggy was basically the first international supermodel.
She retired from modeling just four years later, and went on to have a sort of renaissance woman career — she’s been nominated for a Tony, designed her own clothing lines, written books. She's even got a podcast, Tea with Twiggy. But she’s still best known for those years in the 60s — and it’s not just for who she was, but for how she looked.
[MUSIC FADES IN]
I was curious how she thinks about that time. If you come to see yourself differently after the whole world suddenly starts looking at you. And I wanted to know how she’s managed to grow up, to figure out who she is now, when every day people still ask about her 16-year-old self.
Twiggy is 72 years old.
INTERVIEW
Max: Hi, Twiggy.
Twiggy: Hi, how are you?
Max: I'm all right. How are you doing?
Twiggy: I'm good.
Max: Maybe you’re good because of all this podcasting you’ve been doing. You’re a podcaster now [Twiggy laughs]! Talking on Zoom. You got that, uh, beautiful microphone there.
Twiggy: I've got a very posh mic, haven’t I?
Max: You do. You do. It’s a fancy one. This podcast I've been doing in the pandemic is about reconnecting with friends, with people from different parts of your life. And I wonder at this stage of your life. What your understanding of friendship is and how it's changed?
Twiggy: Oh, interesting question. My daughter, who's my best friend-- I mean, she's grown up and she's got kids and things. But about six months before the pandemic hit and before I started my podcast, we'd gone out to, um, a ladies lunch. It was myself, my daughter, couple of lady friends, and through the lunch, my friends and I were laughing and talking about things that have happened in the 60s and 70s and having, you know, we were just laughing and telling funny stories. And at the end of the lunch, my daughter said, “Oh mom, that was great. You should do a podcast.” [Max laughs] And I didn't really know that much about--I mean, I heard the word, but I didn't really know what it was. I'd never listened to one and I said, ‘Oh, yeah’ but I didn't have to do that. And she said, Well, I'll help you--blah blah blah. Anyway, you know, I got into doing other things and didn't really think about it. And then the big COVID hit the world [Max laughs]. Oh gosh. And, um, I got a call from my agent and he said, I've had a couple of producers ring up to see if you'd like to do a podcast because obviously everyone--
Max: Obviously there's nothing else to do.
Twiggy: Nothing else to do. The upside of it, I got great guests because everyone was at home [laughs] bored to tears. And for me, I mean, it was my savior because the hardest thing for me when COVID hit us was not seeing my daughter and my grandchildren. I was with my husband, so I wasn't alone. So I was fine in that respect, much luckier than most people. But I did miss my friends, my daughter, my grand-- my grandchildren. It was horrible because my daughter had just given birth three weeks before our first lockdown to her second child. So, you know, and I was planning to go, as the good grandmother that I am, to go and help with the baby. And, you know, and just be there because they're very precious, precious times, new babies.
Max: That such a precious time to lose. Like, there's no getting that time back.
Twiggy: I mean, we zoomed along and I saw him on camera, but it's not the same. But anyway, there was nothing we could do about it. And so I thought, well doing a podcast may be fun to do. And it, you know, it saved my life really, because you know, well, you know what it's like. Even though a lot of them were my friends, I got to research things about them that I didn't know because you don't know everything but your friends. And I was nervous because I've never done it before.
Max: Yeah, and you're-you're good at it.
Twiggy: Well, thank you. Well really I mean, my husband came up with it because we thought, what can we call it? And my husband, Lee said, ‘Oh, you got to call it Tea with Twiggy because everyone was so--oh, we were all so scared. It was very, you know, nerve wracking time. Nobody quite knew that first lockdown. If you remember, it was bloody horrible, wasn't it?
Max: I mean, here it was truly, truly horrific.
Twiggy: Yeah. Well, it was everywhere in the world and it was frightening. And I said, if I'm going to do one, I'd like to do one, so people at home have got some kind of funny and happy moments to listen to [laughs].
Max: It does seem like that's your, uh, that’s your energy.
Twiggy: Yeah. And I-- you know, because there are lots of really good people on podcasts who can help with health and well-being and doctors. And, I mean, I can't do that. I got such lovely, you know, lovely feedback from people saying, ‘Oh, it cheered me up and, you know, I live on my own and I couldn't go out’ And so you know that that's nice.
Max: Have you always been that way? Have you always been funny?
Twiggy: [laughs] Have I've always been funny. I've always been pretty optimistic and upbeat, yeah. I mean, I have my moments [both laugh], but I always look on the--to me life is half full, not half empty.
Max: And it's always been like that.
Twiggy: Yeah, yeah, I think so. I tend to look at the best side rather than the worst side. Although I have to say through the pan-- major part, the pandemic last year, it was hard sometimes.
Max: Hm, do you have a sense of where that optimism comes from in you?
Twiggy: I don't know. I think it's the way you're made, isn't it?
Max: Yeah. Is that your theory?
Twiggy: Yeah. Funnily enough, my mum suffered with, you know, her nerves. She'd have very down time. So I kind of lived with that as a child. And maybe I thought, ‘Well, I don't want to have to be like that.’ My dad, who was like my rock because when mum wasn't, well, my dad was always there and he and my sisters, actually. But, um, you know, and I was very protected. You know, it was a happy home life, even with mum not being, well, sometimes. I don't know. I don't know. They didn't really have a name. This was in the middle 1950s, so it was probably kind of bipolar. We would probably call it now.
Max: Yeah.
Twiggy: Listen, she lived till she was 91, so it didn't kill her [both laugh].
Max: Yeah. Would you talk about it like with your dad or with your sisters?
Twiggy: Well, when I went the first time, she had a kind of not being very well. Um, I was so young, I was like four or five, so it was just mummy's not well and then she'd be fine after a few weeks.
Max: Right and when she's down, maybe as a kid, you feel like you should stay up.
Twiggy: Maybe I've never tried to analyze it before, but that's interesting.
[MUSIC FADES IN]
Twiggy: That's a possibility, Dr Max [both laugh].
Max: Well, it only took us, like, five minutes.
[MUSIC FADES OUT]
[[MIDROLL]]
[MUSIC FADES IN]
[MUSIC FADES OUT]
Max: Can you tell me what the experience was like for you those 18 months or 2 years when you go from getting a haircut to landing at JFK with the world's cameras pointed--
Twiggy: World domination [laughs].
Max: Yeah, I mean, this is a genuine question. I mean this in every sense of the word. What the fuck was that like?
Twiggy: What’s weird, when I look back now as an adult, I've realized how young, I mean, I was so young. I was 16 and 4 months-5 months. You know, one week I was going to school still. The next week I was having my haircut. The owner of the salon who cut my hair wanted a photograph of the haircut because that's initially what it was. He wanted to cut my hair. Have the photograph put in his salon has his new haircut. It wasn't really about me. It was about the haircut. But as fate would have it, one of his clients was, um, a journalist for a big daily newspaper over here and this lady, this very nice lady, went in to have her hair done that week and saw this new photograph of Leonard's new haircut and said, ‘Oh, I love the haircut. Who's the girl?’ She said, ‘I want to meet her.’ You know, you got to remember there was no social media. Newspapers didn't write about models or, you know, very, very few articles about fashion in those days, this was ‘66. There were a few teenage magazines and then obviously there was Vogue, Harper's Bazaar, but they were for, you know, adult grown up ladies. So when she said she wanted to interview me, I, you know, I didn't-I didn't really know what an interview was. Anyway, I went up on the bus and I had tea with this really nice lady, and she said, ‘I'm going to write about you and I thought ‘oh’. And two weeks later, I remember my dad--bless him--my dad used to go out every morning and buy the newspaper and he’d come back and say ‘oh’
Max: Hoping to see the article.
Twiggy: Yeah. Nothing in here today, Lesley. Never mind. And we thought it would be a little kind of article. And two weeks later, he came in. He was so excited and he said, ‘Oh, Les. Les! It's in. It's in.’ And it was the whole page of this broadsheet. And the headline was, Twiggy the Face of ‘66. And that was in February 1966. And from that day, my life changed forever, I'm happy to say.
Max: You are happy to say.
Twiggy: Oh yeah, it was amazing. You know, suddenly I was flying to Paris to do the Paris collections. Working with Bert Stern, who's one of the great photographers. With ---- for Elle magazine. Six months after that, Diana Vreeland, who was the editress of American Vogue and she saw all the articles about me in England and she brought me to America, and I would say that, Diana made me global. I was very famous in England by then, but Diana Vreeland turned me, global. But when I came into New York, you said, you've got to remember that period. I came in ‘66. I think the Beatles had come in in ‘62 ‘63. So I was kind of part of that British invasion.
Max: Right!
Twiggy: So I came in, I land at Kennedy airport and there's photographers and screaming girls--I mean it was mad. And I was 16! No, I was just 17. I tell a lie. It was ‘67.
Max: A year before you were just like living in the suburbs with your family.
Twiggy: Yeah, exactly.
Max: Going to school.
Twiggy: Yeah. And you know, Sonny and Cher threw a party for me in Hollywood. I mean, it was like, ahhh! So it was exciting. It was mad. They threw it in their garden. So it was on-on the lawn, you know, because it was California, all the sun. And so we flew into California, and Sonny and Cher give me this amazing party on their lawn. And they were huge at that time. They released, I Got You, Babe. I love them and I was like, ‘Oh my God, they are giving me a party.’ And then there was this sound of a motorbike, and this guy on a motorbike came up on the lawn and it was Steve McQueen [Max laughs]. It was like bonkers. And he came up and asked me for a dance and I said, ‘No.’ [laughs]
Max: You said no?
Twiggy: Well, I was so shy. It was like, ‘Oh my God, I can't.’
Max: That's part of my question is like, you've got this like wonderful kind of goofball-y energy. When you were 16 or 17 showing up in the states, like, what were you like at that party at Sonny and Cher’s house? Were you a good hang?
Twiggy: I don't know what that means.
Max: Were you being yourself? I guess is my question.
Twiggy: Oh yeah! I didn't know what else to be. And also, you've got to remember this was amazing. I'd never been abroad. I was being given beautiful clothes. I was working with these amazing--everyone is really nice to me, actually. It was lovely. It's like being queen for the day [laughs].
Max: It's kind of shocking that your head even stayed on your shoulders, you know?
Twiggy: I mean, I do look back and think it could have been disastrous.
Max: I don't know that I've talked to anyone who is as well known for that short a period of time from that long ago, as you are. And I wonder what your relationship is to that time now like what is it like to have people know you so well for something that is now so long ago?
Twiggy: It's very nice because most people are nice about it because it's a happy memory for them. People who are like, who are my sort of age, they have their memories from that period.
Max: It's meaningful to people that it's a positive memory for them. But what's your relationship to it now, like, does that feel like it's something that happened to a different person?
Twiggy: Well, not really, because I can remember it really well. I mean, I don't think about it on a day to day basis. I think about when I talk to people like ‘Oh, God is going to ask me about this situation’ [laughs]
Max: Does it feel that way? Like, is it like, I've told the story one billion times?
Twiggy: [laughs] Sometimes when people say, How do you get your name? My heart sinks. I must have told that story so many times. But or how did it all start? But I appreciate that, you know, not everyone knows the story. I know it because it happened to me. But I remember having this conversation, one of my dear friends and I honestly, I'm not name dropping. I am name dropping. But he is a really good friend of mine, he’s Paul McCartney. I mean, we met way, way, way back when I was 17 and he was 20 or something. And we both bemoan the fact that, you know, he always says, ‘You know, I've done so many things, but really, everyone wants to talk about the Beatles.’ And it's kind of similar. But now you listen, I'm very she's almost like this little friend who sits on my shoulder because, you know, everywhere I go in the world, there's, you know, you go to markets and there's t shirts with that little face on it, and I can't really get away from it. And it was extraordinary, what happened to me?
Max: Absolutely.
Twiggy: And you couldn't have planned it if you tried. It couldn't have happened. If I had gone to a model agency in 1966, I would have been shown the door because I was too small. I was 5”6. I was much too thin. I think their minimum height was at 5 ft 8.
Max: Yeah.
Twiggy: And their minimum measurements were much bigger than me. And, um, so I wouldn't have been taken on by an agency. So on paper, it shouldn't have happened. But it did! [laughs]
Max: But it did. But it did. I mean, it's incredible to think about, you know, how different your life would be without that newspaper story.
Twiggy: I know. Well, that haircut, I think, was the haircut. Because the makeup I did myself, but only at weekends, you know, I was a schoolgirl. But like most teenage girls, me and my friends would meet on a Saturday or Sunday. And, you know, what do you do? You play music and you play with makeup? So we would muck about and I had a rag doll in my bedroom that had the painted eyes with the eyelashes. And that's where if you look at those early pictures of me, they're all drawn on and false eyelashes.
Max: Can I ask you a couple more questions about the little friend on your shoulder? Yes, you
Twiggy: Yes, you can.
Max: That feels like such a unique experience for you. I mean, I guess, like, the only people you could talk about it with are people like Paul McCartney. But I wonder how you get to a place of peace with that of going out in the world, having people know you so well for this time, that's now 50 plus years ago, wishing on some level that they knew all that you have done since, but also knowing that like, that's somewhat of a losing battle, that's not a fight worth fighting. How do you just get OK with that?
Twiggy: For me professionally, I'm much prouder of other things I've done. I mean, you know, I loved it, but it kind of happened to me. Do you know what I mean? And I learned my craft, you know, I was a good model. But in the eighties, I did a big musical on Broadway, My One and Only.
Max: Yeah.
Twiggy: And appearing on Broadway was something for me was such a major thing because I didn't think I could do that. And I remember because I'd done the film The Boyfriend in 1970, which was the thing that kind of stopped me modeling, really, because once I did the film, that's what I wanted to do.
Max: Right. Yeah, I mean, you retired pretty quickly and went on to do this incredible stuff, like two years on Broadway. But again, like I think part of what I'm asking about is, you know, you had this experience that is completely unique. But I also think that so many of us, that time in our lives when we're, you know, our late teens and early 20s, those-those times in your life are so formative. And I think for a lot of people, it feels like your best self or your true self or when you were the most free. And so I think the thing I'm asking about is like, how do you Twiggy hold on to the parts of that that you want to hold on to while also moving on from it and living the rest of your life?
Twiggy: I don't think-I don't have a choice. You know, it happened and it was fantastic and I have amazing memories. There's no sadness, really. You know, if that hadn't have happened to me, I would. I would never have done The Boyfriend. I would never have starred on Broadway. I would never have got my own clothing. You know, I would never have been given those opportunities. I mean, how lucky am I? You know, I thank my lucky stars most days.
Max: Can we talk about, um, beauty for a second?
Twiggy: If you want [laughs].
Max: Do you not want to? Is that not interesting to you?
Twiggy: Well, I really don't mind. Just funny.
Max: OK, well, here's what I'm interested in. You mean you said other places and already in our conversation that you know before you got that haircut, you wouldn't have been able to walk into a modeling agency. You didn't really think of yourself as conventionally beautiful. And I think that that time in our lives is something that also we hold on to really tightly.
Twiggy: And I also think that most teenage girls hate what they look like. Have you ever met a teenage girl who doesn't think she's too thin, too fat, too short, too tall? You know, want curly hair? Want straight hair? I've never met a teenager who's happy with what they look like.
Max: Do you still feel connected to that? Like, do you still see yourself as like a gangly teenager in some way?
Twiggy: No, because I'm not. But, um, but I know that feeling. I don't think you're inner feelings of a change. And I never grow up thinking, ‘Oh, that's a lovely face’ or that, you know, by the time I was 16, when it happened to me, I kind of hated what I looked like because my legs were very skinny. I didn't really have a figure. And I was very into clothes. I made most of my own clothes because I couldn't buy what I wanted. I was--I don't know whether they had it in America, but I was a mod. Clothes were incredibly important, you know? It was like a uniform how you dress. So I used to make a lot of my clothes. But, you know, probably if I'd have had a fairy godmother, I'd have wanted to look like Brenda Leigh. She was a big American singing star, and she was cute with kind of bouffant hair and a pinched-in waist, and she had a lovely figure and she wore big sky, you know. She was brilliant, but that's what I wanted. I would have liked to have looked like, but obviously I didn't. But then I didn't know I was going to be the new look [laughs].
Max: And what was it like when there was the next new look? What was it like for you to be at the top of the mall like that and then to have things change?
Twiggy: I don't think you stop and think about it when it's happening, you live it.
Max: This is another really broad question that maybe there is no answer to. But you know, for someone who is so well-known and associated with the way that she looked when she was 16 and 17, what has it been like physically to get older for you?
Twiggy: Can't do anything about it. [laughs] You might you might as well go with the flow, you know?
Max: I mean, is that the same thing as, you know, being an optimist?
Twiggy: Yeah, it has to. You know, I can't believe anyone goes into a depression about getting older because, you know, we all we are all born, we all grow up, we all live and we all die. So I mean, you have to accept that you do get older. I look after myself. I'm not obsessive about it because my life is not about--I mean, it is about what I look like because I'm a performer. But it's not just about that. You know what I mean?
Max:Yeah.
Twiggy: I mean, day to day, my life is being a wife and a mom and a grandma, so I don't get up and think, Oh my God, I've got another... you know, I don't think, you know, that's not what I think about, you know, don't you sometimes think, I wish I was 35 again, but, you know, if you go down that road, that's not a happy ending,
Max: That seems so healthy to me. But you have to know that for some people, accepting that is incredibly challenging.
Twiggy: Yeah, I do. But you got to get over it because it ain't going to change. You're not going to get young unless somebody out there reverses it and we go back to the future. [Max laughs] That’d be fun, wouldn’t it.? If you could go back in time, where-what period would you go to?
Max: Of human history or in my own life?
Twiggy: Oh. Oh, yeah.
Max: Oh, I think right now is great.
Twiggy: Oh, that's interesting.
Max: Yeah, I'm very into right now.
Twiggy: Oh, OK, how old are you?
Max: I just turned 40.
Twiggy: Oh, we look very, very good on it.
Max: Oh, hey, hey, thanks. I care a lot about it. I've not accepted the idea that I'm getting older now. [Twiggy laughs]
Twiggy: Now it's all coming out. But, you know, I mean, it's no good sitting and worrying about getting older. It's a fact. It’s a fact.
Max: Yeah. You wrote this book called A Guide to Looking and Feeling Fabulous Over 40.
Twiggy: To be fair and to be truthful, you know, you get as you know, you get offers from publishers to do this and do that. And that was an obvious one for me to do about fashion [Max laughs]. It was fun. I enjoyed it
Max: Like, it was easy for you to do.
Twiggy: Oh yeah. Well, I just we just where you see what the book is, you know, it's a lighthearted look at fashion and women like books like that.
Max: I think I have to admit something to you.
Twiggy: What?
Max: Well, I really try to not come into these conversations with assumptions, you know, I really try and not have it figured out before I talk to people and try and listen. And I think in this one, I think that I did have this assumption that given this experience you had as a young person that was so inextricably tied to how you looked that how you look changing, becoming an older person, just had to have been hard. And, like, all the questions I have are basically about it being hard [Twiggy laughs] and you keep saying to me over and over again--
Twiggy: So I’ve just blown that [laughs].
Max: Well, no, I mean, it's a thousand percent my own fault for assuming that it would be. I think maybe that's just like it would be for me.
Twiggy: Hmm, well, it'll come to you one day so--
Max: But it's pretty impressive that it's not for you.
Twiggy: I think if you've got a busy life, which I have, if you've got a happy life, which may-- I mean, you know, not every day is a happy day, but you know, I've got basically a happy life. There are other things I want to do, and there are things we're planning to do. I mean, a lot of stuff with like with everyone got put on hold because of COVID, but I don’t really want for anything.
Max: You're 72 now.
Twiggy: Yeah.
Max: When you think about yourself the night before that newspaper article came out like your dad's been going and checking the newsstand every day waiting for it…
Twiggy: Yeah [laughs]
Max: If you could go back then and tell that girl something. What do you think you would say?
Twiggy: Enjoy it, you know. And believe in yourself. I, you know, I was very shy and kind of not very--I was nervous of people and, you know, I was a kid.
Max: Yeah.
Twiggy: So, you know, and I do always say to people, you know, if I'm asked, what would you tell younger people that, you know, in a way you do have to follow your dreams because if you don't, I think you'd look back and think, why, if you're given the chance to follow them. You'd always regret not doing it.
Max: I got one last thing, and I'm sure this is when you're going to just tell me to shut up about, but I'm ask you anyway.
Twiggy: Go on then. Do you care about what people think of you?
Twiggy: Yes, of course. Don't you?
Max: Uh-huh? Yeah, I do.
Twiggy: I don't spend all day thinking about it.
Max: Do you care more or less now than you did when you were younger? Is that something that changes with age?
Twiggy: Oh, probably less. Yeah, definitely.
[MUSIC FADES IN]
Max: You feel like yourself.
Twiggy: I do actually, yeah, I do.
CREDITS
70 Over 70 is a production of Pineapple Street Studios, and it’s produced by Jess Hackel.
Our associate producer is Janelle Anderson. Our editors are Maddy Sprung-Keyser and Joel Lovell. Research and additional reporting by Charley Locke.
Our mixer is Elliott Adler, and Jenna Weiss-Berman and I are the executive producers.
Our theme song is Like a Dream by Francis and the Lights and the music you’re listening to is by Mavis Staples, who’s 82. Original music by Terence Bernardo. Additional music by Noble Kids, and music licensing by Dan Knishkowy.
Our cover art is by Maira Kalman who is 72, and our episode art is by Lynn Staley. She’s 74, and she’s also my mom.
Thank you, Dierdre Wolownick. And thank you, Twiggy.
I'm Max Linsky. Thanks for listening.
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