BACK ISSUE
That Time Music Videos Made Us Want to Emote in the Rain
Welcome to the fifty-eleventh annual Back Issue Video Music Awards! Join Josh and Tracy as they honor their favorite music videos of the ‘90s and 2000s in categories you might expect (Most Iconic Look in a Music Video) and some you absolutely won’t (Best Use of Water in a Music Video & Best Music Video Sponsored by Old Navy). Spoiler alert: our Blifetime (nope, that’s not a typo) Award goes to THEE Director X, who’s worked with pretty much everybody, including Usher, Aaliyah, DMX, and Drake. He helps answer the questions: what makes a great music video and what does the future hold for the medium?
[Awards show music starts playing]
Tracy: Welcome to the 50-11th Annual Back Issue Video Music Awards pre-show. I'm Tracy.
Josh: And I'm Josh.
Tracy: And we are here, live on the red carpet, looking to chat with some truly iconic video music award red carpet moments. And right on cue, I think I see one coming our way now.
Josh: I think you're right. Is that the titty Diana Ross jiggled when she presented with Lil' Kim from '99 VMAs? How are you doing?
Titty: I am feeling divine, thank you so much.
Josh: You're looking divine, too. Tell us who you're wearing tonight.
Titty: I am wearing an iridescent lavender pasty and nothing else.
Josh: Well, we're certainly not mad at you for showing a little skin. Tell us who you look forward to seeing tonight.
Titty: Oh em gee, I cannot wait to see whose performance lil’ mama jumps on stage and interrupts this year. You know what? It might be Beyonce this time, can you believe it?
Josh: You don't really think she'd do that again, do you?
Titty: I mean, did you think she'd do it to Jay-Z in '09?
Josh: Fair point. All right. All right, enjoy the show, Lil' Kim's titty.
Titty: Bye, thank you.
Tracy: Ooh, ooh, look who I see coming up next. That is Lady Gaga's meat dress from 2010.
Tracy: Meat dress. Meat dress, over here.
Meat Dress: Hey. What's going on with y'all?
Tracy: Now, I know we don't have a lot of time, so tell me quickly what you're looking forward to seeing here tonight.
Meat Dress: I'll tell you what I'm not looking forward to seeing: more of Miley Cyrus twerking, or whatever it is she caught herself doing that year. It's too much for even me, and I'm a dress made of rancid, molding meat. So, it's pretty bad.
Tracy: Yeah, that's pretty bad. All right, the countdown clock is telling me that we've got time to say hey to one last icon.
Josh: Wait, is that the Hennessy bottle that Kanye West was drinking out of in 2009?
Tracy: Oh, my gosh. I think it is.
Josh: It's surprising to see you tonight. Who are you wearing?
Hennessy: I'm actually wearing the dress that Macy Gray wore [inaudible] her album in 2001. It says, "My new album drops Sept. 18."
Josh: So let me get this straight: you're a Hennessy bottle wearing a dress?
Hennessy: You didn't think I'd just show up naked? On red carpet? Who does that?
Josh: Another fair point. Okay, tell me who you're hoping to-
Hennessy: This interview's over. I got to go to the bathroom.
Josh: Well, damn.
Tracy: All right. Well said, Hennessy bottle.
Josh: And now it's time to tune into the Regal Back Issue Theater, because your 50-11th Annual Back Issue Video Music Awards starts now.
[Awards show music fades]
[CLIP] Voice: Beyonce? You look like Luther Vandross.
[CLIP] Voice: Ho, but make it fashion.
[CLIP] Voice: But you ain't heard that from me.
[CLIP] Voice: Fierce
[CLIP] Voice: Call ‘em
[CLIP] Voice: You see, when you do clownery--
[CLIP] Voice: ‘Cuz we won’t stop.
[CLIP] Voice: Can’t get no sleep ‘cuz of y’all--
[CLIP] Voice: the clown comes back to bite.
[CLIP] Voice: Y’all not gonna get no sleep ‘cuz of me.
[CLIP] Voice: It's Britney, bitch.
[CLIP] Voice: [Voices overlapping] We were rooting for you, Tiffany. We were all rooting for you… [overlapping voices crescendo]
Tracy: Who said that?
Josh: Welcome to Back Issue. A weekly podcast that revisits formative moments in pop culture that we still think about.
Tracy: This week, music videos.
Josh: Videos.
[CLIP] Voice: What's up? Welcome to TRL Carson back
[CLIP] Voice: What's up, y'all? Welcome to the premier show of 106 & Park
[CLIP] Voice: It is your VH1 top 20 video countdown from live in the vineyard.
[CLIP] Voice: Pop-up video.
Tracy: Each week, we'll go back into the past and revisit unforgettable moments we all think we remember...
Josh: And learn what they can teach us about where we are now.
Tracy: I'm Tracy Clayton and welcome to the 50-11th Annual Back Issue Video Music Awards.
Josh: And I'm Josh Gwynn, and the nominees are...
Tracy: So, Josh.
Josh: So, Trace.
Tracy: The nineties to the early aughts were such a moment for music videos, right? I think it's a combination of it being the turn of the century and people being very futuristic and creative.
Josh: And scared of Y2K [laughs].
Tracy: And terrified of Y2K. And all of that, really allowed for some creativity. Music videos give the opportunity for the artist to transform themselves and tell a story and take us on a journey.
Josh: And sometimes I really love just going on a journey with the artist in terms of the music videos that they put out. I think of Beyonce going from dressing as a cop in (singing) If I Were a Boy...
Tracy: Such a good video.
Josh: ...To sinking a cop car in Formation.
Tracy: You know what that is? Growth. I also think that the best videos elevate the song as well.
Josh: A song could be good, but the visual doesn't work, it loses something.
Tracy: Right, in a way that I can't really describe, but I know who could describe it perfectly, who we should talk to.
Josh: Who?
Tracy: Director X.
Josh: Yes. I can't tell you how excited I am.
Tracy: I can sense your excitement. I can feel it through the radio waves?
Josh: [laughs]
Tracy: Director X has been doing legendary work behind the camera since the nineties. He's worked with everybody, and I mean everybody, from Destiny's Child to Usher to Drake, Ariana Grande, et cetera, et cetera. And a little bit later, we're going to talk to him about what makes a great music video.
Josh: But first, since this is the 50-11th Back Issue Music Video Awards, we got some awards to hand out.
[Music starts playing]
Josh: Where do we start, though? Right? The nineties and the early 2000s have so many music videos.
Tracy: And for that reason, I vote we focus on some of the ones that stick out in our brains the most.
Josh: Okay. Up top, I think easy go-tos: Missy Elliott.
Tracy: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Josh: Janet Jackson.
Tracy: Yes. Clear legends, clear icons.
Josh: Icons. Some of the videos we're about to feature... they're not giving that, right? Some of them are great. Some of them are a mess. Some of them just stick out in our minds for reasons we probably don't even know.
Tracy: But they were all moments, darling, as Mariah would probably say? She'd probably say that.
Josh: Exactly. She would absolutely say that.
Josh: So we're putting them head to head and giving an award to the best of the best, our personal best.
Tracy: Yes.
[Music fades into awards show music]
Tracy: Our first category is the Most Iconic Looks of Music Video History.
Josh: And the nominees are: Missy Elliott, The Rain (1997)
[CLIP of Missy Elliiott’s “The Rain”]
Josh: A good test of whether a music video look is iconic is whether you see it at Halloween. It Halloween doesn't pass without seeing a big black inflatable suit.
Tracy: Rarely, rarely does that happen.
Tracy: Our next nominee is Lil' Kim, Crush On You (1996).
[CLIP of Lil’ Kim’s “Crush on You”]
Josh: She served us ROYGBIV, okay? I love a color palette-based video. Say My Name owes everything to this. [laughs]
Tracy: I don't know if I can prove this, but I feel like, if not this video, then definitely Lil' Kim was the first time I really saw female rappers in different color hair, different color wigs like that.
Josh: Absolutely. I think it all comes back to Lil' Kim.
Tracy: Our next nominee: TLC, Creep (1992)
[CLIP of TLC’s “Creep”]
Tracy: First of all, did you know that my initials are also TLC?
Josh: How lucky are you?
Tracy: So there's one vote. And then the silk pajamas...
Josh: Yes.
Tracy: They had them buttoned right above the navel and the fan is going and then Chilli had the matching silver lipstick. Come on. I should do that for Halloween. That sounds comfortable.
Josh: Can I do it, too?
Tracy: Okay. Our next nominee is Aaliyah in basically every single video that she ever made, but especially Are You That Somebody? (1988)
[CLIP of Aaliyah’s “Are You That Somebody”]
Tracy: ...and Try Again in the year 2000.
[CLIP of Aaliyah’s “Try Again”]
Tracy: What's not to love? There's the metallic makeup.
Josh: Check.
Tracy: There's the hawk.
Josh: Check.
Tracy: You know how I feel about Black girls with birds, so I am into it. Into all of it.
Josh: [laughs] Aaliyah just had so many looks.
Tracy: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Josh: In the Try Again video, she had a diamond choker with a diamond bra and a diamond belt.
Tracy: She's the reason why I wanted a flat stomach forever. Just so I could wear a crop top and some bigass pants. That's all I wanted to do with my life.
Josh: I feel like the kids today, they're seeing it.
Tracy: I hope so.
Josh: Because I look on TikTok and everybody looks like this. You just see the butterfly clips and the leather and the pastels. It's all coming back, it's coming back round.
Tracy: I feel like we can leave the butterfly clips behind, though. I'm going to say it.
Josh: I love them.
[Drumroll]
Tracy: And the winner is... Drum roll, drum roll, drum rolls... TLC, Creep (1992), and not just because we share initials.
Josh: [laughs] "This is rigged."
Tracy: [laughs] Our next category is Best Use of Water in a Music Video.
Josh: And the nominees are: TLC doing the shoulder choreo in front of the waterfalls in the music video for Waterfalls.
[CLIP of TLC’s “Waterfalls”]
Josh: Sade playing a deep sea diving mermaid in the No Ordinary Love video in 1992.
Tracy: Too pretty for words.
[CLIP of Sade’s “No Ordinary Love”]
Josh: 3LW dancing and stomping in the water for the music video I Do feat. Loon in 2002.
[CLIP of 3LW’s “I Do”]
Josh: Ray J pouring his heart out in the pouring rain outside of some girl's house with One Wish in 2005.
[CLIP of Ray J’s “One Wish”]
Tracy: Very, very worthy contenders. First of all, I think you're very generous for including Ray J in something. I think that's very nice of you. But you know what? Him singing in the rain is spiritually the child of every nineties R&B group that was always standing up, singing in the rain. You remember that? They were either in the rain singing or in the desert singing.
Josh: Are you actually having an emotion if you're not feeling the elements?
[Drumroll]
Tracy: [Laughs] And the winner is...
Josh: Sade.
Tracy: Yay.
Josh: It's not fair that I feel like I was too young to ever go see Sade live.
Tracy: Yeah.
Josh: She comes out every 20 years. I'm going to be 75-
Tracy: In the front row, though. I'm going to be there.
Josh: I'll be there present, okay?
Josh: The next category is Music Videos That Made Us Feel Like the Main Character.
Tracy: Now, what exactly do you mean by this, Josh? Can you break it down for the people?
Josh: Did you ever have that moment where you were walking through the grocery store with your mom and you had your iPod and you were listening to music and everyone just faded away because you pretended that you were in your own music video?
Tracy: Abso-freaking-lutely, I still maybe do that to this day.
Josh: These are the songs that aided in that process. There are so many perfect vehicles for our angst.
Tracy: And I was angsty as fuck! [Laughs]
Josh: [crosstalk] Angsty. Okay.
Tracy: And the nominees are Michelle Branch, sadly strumming her guitar in Everywhere, 2001.
[CLIP of MIchelle Branch’s “Everywhere”]
Tracy: Vanessa Carlton making her way downtown on a rolling piano in A Thousand Miles, 2001.
[CLIP of Vanessa Carlton’s “A Thousand Miles”]
Tracy: Avril Lavigne, screaming in the rain in I'm With You, 2002. [music]
[CLIP of Avril Lavigne’s “I’m With You”]
Josh: Yo, that song, I would literally wait for it to rain and then walk around.
Tracy: I would not even wait for it to rain. I would just put the song on and just stare longingly out the window like, "Who's going to come and save me? Who?" Hillary Duff sadly looking out a rain-soaked window, while thinking about how Lindsay Lohan stole her man that one time in Come Clean, 2004.
[CLIP of Hillary Duff’s “Come Clean”]
Tracy: Natasha Bedingfield, smiling and dancing with a gospel choir in Unwritten, 2004.
[CLIP of Natasha Bedingfield’s “Unwritten”]
Tracy: Also shout out to the Tik-Tok resurgence because children found that song and said listen.
Josh: And then she found the children that found that song.
Tracy: And then she found the children and it is back in our lives, once again.
[CLIP from Tik Tok]
Tracy: Our final nominee is Fefe Dobson being angsty on a mattress and a toilet in Don't Let It Go To Your Head, 2005.
[CLIP of Fefe Dobson’s “Don’t Let It Go To Your Head”]
[Drumroll sound]
Josh: And the winner is...
Tracy: Vanessa Carlton, A Thousand Miles.
Josh: I knew it. I knew it.
Tracy: Can I just say that via -
Josh: [crosstalk] Niggas love this song.
Tracy: Thank you for saying it quickly, what I was going to spend too much time saying. I keep thinking about Soulja Boy, in that vine that he made, do you remember?
Josh: Uh-huh (affirmative).
[CLIP]: Makin' my way downtown, walking fast. I don't know the rest of (sings)
Josh: I really feel like the origin of black folks loving this song is the movie White Chicks.
[CLIP from “White Chicks”]: How did you know? I love this song. Making my way downtown, walking fast, faces pass, and I'm home bound. And I need you.
[Old Navy-esque music starts playing]
Josh: And, now it's time for my personal favorite category. Best Music Video, sponsored by Old Navy.
Tracy: So this is my most favorite thing that I think you've introduced me to because you know how some videos just looked like an Old Navy ad? I was like, you know what? Yes, absolutely. Like it's the fashion, it's the lighting, it's the cinematography, and like this effervescent feel of it, you know?
Josh: Right. I think it's this aesthetic that really reached its peak around Jordan Sparks' Red Sangria.
Tracy: That video.
[CLIP of Jordin Sparks’ “Red Sangria”]
Josh: Do you know what an experience you have to have, to put out a music video and the internet slaps old Navy's logo on it.
Tracy: But it fit though, and it's not a bad song.
Josh: Don't lie to her.
Tracy: Okay, our nominees are... Blaque I Do, 1999.
[CLIP of Blaque’s “I Do”]
Tracy: The little dance that they did and of course the butterfly clips.
Josh: The next nominee is Nelly Furtado's Promiscuous
[CLIP of Nelly Furtado’s “Promiscuous”]
Tracy: It's a banger.
Josh: It's a banger, with peasant blouses and that's getting a little bit more wet seal, but same thing.
Tracy: Same thing, I agree. Next nominee is the Black Eyed Peas' My Humps, 2005.
[CLIP from Black Eyed Peas’ “My Humps”]
Josh: The dazzled belt, the key chain with a bunch of dice hanging on it for no reason. [laughs]
Tracy: That video and song reminds me of like somewhere between wet seal and like hot topic.
Josh: Mm hmm, mm hmm.
Tracy: And the winner is [drumroll] Black Eye Peas' My Humps.
Josh: It's really giving Disney Channel. [laughs]
Tracy: I just feel like this is the thing that happened. I just want us to reckon with that.
Josh: We really did this.
Tracy: We did! On purpose.
[Sad music starts playing]
Josh: Let's just throw in some of the things that we need to just let go and release. I’m channeling Alyssa Edwards from Drag Race right now. Ed Hardy shirts.
[CLIP]: Girl, bye.
Tracy: We've got to let them go.
Josh: Von Dutch.
[CLIP]: Bye, get out.
Tracy: RIP.
Josh: Spinning Rims..
[CLIP]: Hold on, pause this shit.
Tracy: Hey, we can keep the rims. Okay. The rims can stay. [Laughs]
Josh: [Laughs] Okay. Let's cleanse our eyes and let's pivot.
Tracy: Okay, okay. Oh, this next category is perfect to pivot to, sexiest music video. And the nominees are D'Angelo “Untitled, How Does It Feel?” 2000.
[CLIP from D’Angelo’s “Untitled”]
Tracy: Untitled D’Angelo 2000.
[CLIP from D’Angelo’s “Untitled”]
Tracy: How does it Feel, D’Angelo. 2000.
Josh: [laughs]
[CLIP from D’Angelo’s “Untitled”]
Tracy: (sings) by D’Angelo, 2000.
Josh: [laughs]
[CLIP from D’Angelo’s “Untitled”]
Josh: I loved that you captured all of the different names that black people have given the song.
Together: [laughs]
Tracy: Yes. So here's the thing. This is the music video that made me realize, oh, I am a woman and you should hear me roar.
Josh [Laughs]
Tracy: I can't describe what this feeling is, but I was just like, let me sit up a little bit straight on because this man is in the world looking out, like he looks and just like when the little muscles started flexing and he leans back and then his hands and, and like (singing) yeah, yeah, yeah. I wonder who's going to win Josh.
Josh: [laughs] It's a tight race.
Tracy: And the winner is… [drumroll] by D'Angelo. If only he could be here to accept the award.
Josh: We should take some time to honor the artists whose music videos have consistently gave, what they were supposed to have given.
Tracy: As such. we will each be presenting a Who Did That?
Josh: Who did that?
[CLIP] Voice: Who said that?
Voice: Who said that?
Voice: Who said that?
Tracy: You Did That Award. To the artists of our individual choosing. Josh, would you like to go first and start the honors?
Josh: It would be my pleasure after the break.
[AD BREAK]
[Awards show music continues]
Josh: Back Issue and we're back. And I want to welcome you back to the 50-11th Back Issue Video Music Awards. Camera turn, the voice, the pen, the glamor. People recognize this artist for many things, and rightfully so, but this artist also makes exemplary music videos. And not everybody knows that, but they should! The billboard number one hit singles, those are hard to get. Not everyone has those, but the visuals that also go along with them, I can only speak of one name. And that name is Mariah Carey. Mariah Carey is a master in world-building. She uses lyrics, she uses melodies, she uses arrangements, and she uses visuals, to put you in the exact place that she's imagining. The music video for Obsessed, that's the moment after you've binge marathon a bunch of RuPaul's drag race and you're like, I can do that.
Tracy: [Laughs] I'd never say that after watching Ru Paul's Drag Race personally, but I feel you.I feel the energy. [Laughs]
[CLIP from Mariah Carey’s “Obsessed”]
Josh: Besides Gaga, like what other pop diva is giving you drag high art coming out as a drag king? No one.
Tracy: All right. All right. That's a good example.
Josh: I can give you another one.
Tracy: Do it. Do it.
Josh: All right. The music video for Honey.
Tracy: Hmm. That was a good one.
Josh: That's the moment where you want to be in a Bond film, but you also want to address the rumors of your personal life by jumping on to Tommy Matilda's house, allegedly.
Tracy: His alleged house. Sure.
Josh: [Laughs] And show a little bit of choreography, but not really.
Tracy: I feel like that every Tuesday.
Josh: It's so relatable.
[CLIP] Voice: Just before completing her mission, code name Honey. Agent M is abducted by a ruthless counter intelligence organization, known only as Dogs. Their orders, to tame Agent M at all costs.
Josh: I love this video because it's so cinematic. It feels like a movie, but it's also giving you time period. Like they're in a tunnel and in the music video.
Tracy: Right.
Josh: That is a very specific time period.
Tracy: [laughs] Very, very true. You have another one?
Josh: Heartbreaker.
[CLIP] Mariah: You guys brought me here. How could you do this to me? And your man is cheating on you. You're going to go in there and we're going to kick his butt. I'm not going in there. Please take me home. We're going to kick her butt too. You need to go in there and get your man.
Tracy: Mmm, cinema.
Josh: Mariah plays the girlfriend and the side chick in the video. And she gets in a fight with herself. Mariah's acting, she's reacting, she's giving you Lindsay Lohan at her prime.
Tracy: Okay. Give me another.
Josh: This one we’re gonna put in the “Honorable Mention” category. It's the “Like That” video.
Tracy: Yes, yes.
[CLIP from Mariah’s “It’s Like That”]
Josh: The reason this gets separate recognition is because the video is about literally nothing. Except maybe how amazing Mariah Carey is? [laughs] I can’t explain what this music video is about for the life of me. But you can get away with that when you have lyrics like “the moment that you realized that your haters, your phone bill and your rent are all in fact ash. You're the lotion.
Tracy: That line should be put in the Louvre.
Josh: It should be put in the Smithsonian. Put it in the Bible.
Tracy: Well, I don't know if they still editing that one, but we can see.
Tracy: The thing that I love about Mariah's music video filmography, is that it's versatile. You pick a moment and she's going to have something for your ass. Luckily, our producer Emmanuel Hasis, has already put together a cheat sheet for you. In 2015, he put together a ranking of all 64 music videos that Mariah Carey had at that point.
[Applause sounds]
Josh: Insane. With all of that in summation, you did that.
Tracy: Josh, that was truly, truly beautiful. And I cannot wait to go watch all of these videos. Thank you so much for your award, your scholarship. Just lovely. Now if you will please get off the stage, I'm going to need some space.
[Award show music starts playing]
Tracy: Please dim the lights, both here and in your own rooms, light a candle if you please. A rockets game of dice, a high school talent show, a Matador's costume, Paula Abdul, and a gorgeous, gorgeous grown man in a pussycat wig. There's only one musical group that can put all these things in one music video and not only have them make sense but turn them into art. The video, Roses, and the group, of course, is Outkast.
[CLIP of Outkast’s “Roses”]
Tracy: Roses isn't the only video that will have you first confused and then delighted, and then confused a couple more times, but ultimately glad that you spent three and a half minutes with the rap game's most legendary duo. No matter what the song is, it's guaranteed that you'll see something in the video that you did not expect by listening to the song.
Josh: Like what?
Tracy: The "Bombs Over Baghdad" video, for example. You remember the song, right?
Josh: (singing)
Tracy: Right. And it's talking about bombs, which is scary and it's very, very intense and high energy and just manic.
[CLIP of Outkast’s “Bombs over Baghdad”]
Tracy: And then the video, the aesthetic is like, what if we gave Lisa Frank too much LSD? And then she threw up all over Atlanta.
Josh: [laughs]
Tracy: There's purple grass. There's a baboon. What's the baboon, Big Boi? What does that mean? What is the symbol, guys? Probably something, I'm just not artsy enough to get it.
Josh: Love it.
Tracy: And then there's also a black girl that looks like she is supposed to be the little monster demon thing from the grudge, face painted all white?
Josh: Yeah.
Tracy: And she is like twerking in a studio or something. And I'm just like, when I listen to this song, I don't think baboons and black demon girl ghosts twerking, but you know what? That's what happens when it comes to Outkast. Additionally, when people think of Outkast, they usually think about the fashions, but it's not just about the fashions, but also we must talk about the fashions, right?
Josh: [laughs]
Tracy: Because to see Andre 3000 and Big Boi next to each other is to look at two people that you would assume, have never met, don't know nothing about each other.
Josh: Absolutely.
Tracy: Andre 3000 is always sure to surprise and delight from the high-waisted, multicolored, Muppet skin pants paired with football padding that he wore in Rosa Park - you can look this up - to the bell bottoms that come all the way up to his nipples in the So Fresh So Clean video. Where did he find pants that high? Where? Who else could get away with that?
Josh: No one.
Tracy: No one. That was not a rhetorical question. Thank you.
Josh: [laughs]
Tracy: So it's not just about the fashions, nor is it just about the visuals. These videos are full stories, with a beginning, a middle and an end, and their creativity knows no bounds. They don't just have a bunch of girls backing it up on hubcaps in their videos. I mean, they do have that. These are rapping legends from Atlanta, after all.
Tracy: As their career evolves, you get the feeling that all these naked girls and strippers are in here for a reason. It's very intentional. They're a part of the story. And I also love that no matter what's going on, it don't matter what kind of fur coat jacket, Kangol situation Big Boi has on, it don't matter what kind of lederhosen Andre 3000 is in, you going to see Big Boi at some point in the video, flip flops and socks, at least one scene.
Tracy: He's like, "I gotta stay true to the core of myself." And of course, my favorite thing about these videos is that each one features Andre 3000's gorgeous, beautiful, perfect, silky smooth, peanut buttery, just creamy, tasty looking self in each of them.
Josh: Do I need to leave?
Tracy: Yeah. And tell Andre to come in here, on your way out.
Josh: [laughs]
Tracy: And so, Outkast, I must say that when it comes to music videos, you did that. And I also must say to Andre 3000, I wish you'd do me.
[Applause sounds]
Josh: Please, can I come back on the stage now?
Tracy: I think I'm finished, yes.
Josh: [laughs] At this point in the show, we want to hear from you. Tell us your favorite music video of all time using the hashtag #backissuepodcast on Twitter and @backissuepod on Instagram. Trace, who do you think it's going to be?
Tracy: Either D'Angelo or Outkast. Who do you think it's going to be?
Josh: Maybe "Scream", Michael Jackson, Janet Jackson.
Tracy: That's a good one. I can't wait to see what they're going to say.
Josh: Let us know.
[Award show music starts playing]
Josh: And finally, we want to give our lifetime achievement award to Director X,
Tracy: Protege of Hype Williams, Director X has been changing the visual landscape since the '90s. He has worked with everyone.
Josh: And now, we got the honor to sit down with him for this very show after the break.
[AD BREAK]
Josh: Okay. Back Issue and we're back, and we have a treat. We got to sit down with the icon, the legend himself Director X. Trace, can I give you a brief rundown of the music video filmography?
Tracy: Please do, because it's too extensive for me to hold inside of my head.
Josh: [Echo effect] Redman's "I'll Bee Dat", Ice Cube feat. Mack 10 "You Can Do It". DMX "What's My Name". Case "Happily Ever After". Aaliyah feat. DMX "Come Back In One Piece". Sisqo ft. Foxy Brown "Thong Song (Remix)". Donell Jones "Where I Wanna Be". Mystikal ft. Nivea Danger "Been So Long". Mystikal "Shake It Fast". 112 "Peaches And Cream". Usher "U Got It Bad". Fabolous ft. Nate Dogg "Can't Deny It". Usher "U Don't Have To Call."
Josh: Wow, this is wild.
Josh: [Echo effect] Destiny's Child ft. Missy Elliott "Bootylicious (Remix)". Alicia Keys "How Come U Don't Call Me Anymore". Eve ft. Alicia Keys "Gangsta Lovin'". Nelly "Hot In Here". Benzino's "Rock The Party". Sean Paul " Gimme The Light". Craig David "What's Your Flava?". Elijah "Care For You". Daniel Bedingfield "Gotta Get Thru This". Sean Paul "Get Busy". Mario "Let Me Love You". Usher "Caught Up".
Josh: Do I keep going? This is wild, so many.
Josh: [Echo effect] 2 Chainz ft. Drake "No Lie". Justin Bieber "Boyfriend". Ciara "Body Party". Drake "Worst Behavior".
Josh: I didn't think about how long it was.
Josh: [Echo effect] Kendrick Lamar "King Kunta". Drake "Hotline Bling". Fifth Harmony ft. Ty Dolla Sign "Work From Home". Rihanna ft. Drake "Work". DJ Khaled ft. Drake "POPSTAR".
Tracy: That is more or less every formative song of my youth.
Josh: [laughs] And my present!
Tracy: Right. So since he's made every single good music video in the world, he sounds like the perfect person to sit down with. And so we did, we got to get some of the behind the scenes guys about what shooting some of these videos was like, we talked about the role of the music video, how it's changed, how it was going to change and what makes the perfect music video.
Josh: What was your path to directing music videos?
Director X: When I was younger, I thought I was going to be a comic book artist. I drew superheroes all the time. And then my interest turned and I said, "Oh, I'm going to be a graphic designer." In the community, I was out there doing party flyers. I was around 16, 17 years old and I was living in my friend's apartment. We didn't have a living room. The living room was their studio. As they'd write their rhymes at a rap group, a couple of times I'd help them write some stuff. So there's following your interests. And then also not getting caught up in your interests. You know what I'm saying? Just do what you're interested in. Just do what you're interested in. I'm just writing these rhymes because it's fun. Then another one of our friends, Ladybug was her nickname because she drove a bug. She goes to a poetry reading and reads some of her poetry. And at the end of the night, they'd go, "Hey, anyone want to read poetry? Come on up." So I went up and I read the poetry, well, the rhyme I wrote for my friend, Black Conscious rhyme, you know what I'm saying? Wouldn't put the white man brainwashing us in the church.
Josh & Tracy: [laughs]
Josh: Ashay.
Director X: You have got to keep your third eye open. Remember, this is the ex-clamp public enemy days. So being the lightest guy in the room, I was also the blackest guy in the room. So, I'm dropping that knowledge, son. You've got to over stand, son.
Josh & Tracy: [laughs]
Tracy: Got to believe in yourself.
Director X: Exactly. So anyway, so I go up and I read my Black Conscious poem and they say, "Hey, come back and start reading poetry." Cool. Then rap city was a show we had in Canada first on MuchMusic and they decide they're going to do a poetry show. So they invited all the local poets and they invited me because I was kind of getting a name around town. So while at MuchMusic, looking at the lights and doing this stuff with the videos, I then have a new epiphany. These videos, these lights, these cameras, they're artistic, too. And I decided I wanted to make music videos.
Josh: I know that you are a visual consultant on Belly. And then when I think of your music videos, they're just so graphic and visually striking. I wanted to know about how you think those two experiences are related.
Director X: I think part of the reason why I was attracted to Hype's work, hip hop videos at that time, it just felt like they got a camera and went outside and just kind of did stuff. They were just around the neighborhood. But that at the time was perfect for what hip hop needed to be, because there's all this... Hip hop, then, it was just New York City, right? Right. So it was just New York culture. Stoops and bodegas. And there were people still doing conceptual things, like Das EFX was always in a sewer.
Tracy: Yes.
Director X: So it's not like no one ever had a concept, but even the stuff that had concepts, none of it looked great. And then along come these videos, Wu-Tang Clan, "Can it all be so simple", "Flava in ya ear" remix. And both of them, everyone knew, something's changed in the culture.
Josh: Right.
Director X: These music videos are now at this higher level.
Tracy: Your passion clearly is undeniable. And you have a very signature style, I would say. I feel like when we see your work, we're just like, "That's a Director X video." I would love to hear you talk about how you know your work when you see it. What is important to you? What do you infuse into every video that you make? What's your signature?
Director X: I would say one of the biggest lessons that Hype gave me was after I shot my first video, Tracy Lee featuring Pirate MC and Busta Rhymes, and I messed it all up. I messed it all up, I messed it all up.
Tracy: What?
Director X: I went home. It's funny, I remember I took the train there and the car at the end of the night that they called for me was a limo. I went on a train, I left in a limo. Now I see the symbolism. But I'm in the limo, completely depressed. I'm like, "Oh my God." And then I talked to Hype, and he said, "Look, two things. One, that feeling that you suck is the enemy. You need to fight it. That feeling that you're not good enough, you need to fight that feeling." And the second was, "The video needs to be about something. A music video needs to be about something." And I was like, "What do mean needs to be about something? So every video has to be a storyline? Your videos don't all have a storyline." But then I realized being about something could be: the video's about red walls and black floors, the video's about hanging upside down. So when it's about something, it can be about the visual.
Josh: I'm wondering what some of your favorite music videos are of all time and what you feel like they are about.
Director X: David Fincher. He did Fight Club, and he's always been the best. Period. When he did music videos, he was the best at music videos. When he did commercials ... He still does commercials. He still does the best commercials. He's just the best. But number one, one of the best videos of all time is George Michael Freedom.
Josh: Oh, absolutely.
Tracy: That's a good one.
Director X: That's David Fincher, just one of the best. I mean, and what it's about, it's about that lighting. It's about that house. It's about those models, right? You can see there was a cohesive theme, and that's what you're going to keep finding. Mark Romanek, Janet Jackson, Got 'Til It's Gone. The best videos, this is how they operate. They pick a theme, and that's what it is the whole time.
Tracy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I wonder if we can get you to play a little game with this real quick.
Director X: Sure.
Tracy: So let's pretend for the moment that I am a new musical artist. My name is DJ Häagen-Dazs, AKA Bhad Bonnet. It's Bhad Bonnet spelled with the H after the B, because it's very important these days, right? I have a new song. My song is called Turn My Accordion Up.
[CLIP from “Turn My According Up plays]
Josh: Oh my god.
Director X: Somehow I end up in your office, and I'm like, "Listen, I need a video for this bomb-ass song that I'm about to drop." What do we do first, assuming that I can afford it and assuming that you don't hate the song, I guess?
Josh & Tracy: [laughs]
Tracy: Also, in this fantasy, I am rich. What do we do first?
Director X: Let's say you are an artist like a Drake or a Rosalia. The reason why we're having a meeting is because you have an idea already.
Tracy: Oh, okay. Okay.
Director X: If you're that type of artist, you come in and you have a vision. "I want to be in a house, but I want it to look like we're all standing on the ceiling. So the whole house is upside down, and we're going to stand on the ceiling. I want it to look like I've got paint on my feet. So every time I walk somewhere, you see my footprints on the ceiling. Then a car pulls up, and it's three bears. We all run out of the house, and then the three bears come in and they notice that the footprints are on the ceiling. Then we jump in their car, and we drive it away. But then aliens put us in a tractor beam."
Tracy: Oh my gosh.
Josh: [laughs]
Director X: So you see how here's this crazy idea.
Tracy: Yeah.
Director X: Turns into a video.
Tracy: Huh. So step one for me should be finding a record label to give me a contract, and then they'll have the millions. Then Bhad Bonnet gets her first video. I can't wait.
Josh: [laughs] Can we do a little quick fire moment with some of the work that you've done, just get your first reaction?
Tracy: Yes. These are some of our favorite videos.
Josh: The Bootylicious remix with Missy Elliott, Destiny's Child, what's the first thing you think about?
Director X: Disappointed.
Tracy: What?
Josh: Why?
Director X: I didn't love that video, man. I didn't love that one.
Josh: I loved that video with them and the little versions of themselves. I thought it was so cute.
Director X: It was cute, but I didn't love it.
Josh: Okay. You Don't Have to Call by Usher.
Director X: You Don't Have to Call by Usher. See, it's very different, because I remember the things I wish I did. You remember that girl on the magazine cover that looks at him and winks? There's a shot of her at the party, but there's a moment when they meet each other at the party. That was the shot we should have used. So that's what I remember.
Josh: Are there any music videos where you look back and you're like, "Nah, that shit was fire, and there's nothing I would change"?
Director X: You Got It Bad might be one of those. It might be that.
Tracy: Josh, ask about your favorite Aaliyah video.
Josh: So I went back to watch my favorite DMX song, which is the collab that he did with Aaliyah for the Romeo Must Die soundtrack. When I was watching the video, my breath was taken away, because there are all these murals to them on buildings in the video, that stylistic way that Black folks do when someone's really impacted their culture. It felt kind of prophetic. It was really strange to watch it, having DMX just pass away. So I wanted to ask what was your experience like working with those two artists, and what went into making that?
Director X: Back in the day, you'd go to a party, and there'd be fabric murals that people would take pictures in front of.
Tracy: Yes.
Director X: These airbrush murals. So I just did that for them. So it was these airbrushed pieces of fabric that we just took around and put up and photographed people in front of. I mean, now like you said, it's strange. At that time, it was just airbrushed pictures of DMX and Aaliyah.
Josh: Right.
Director X: But now, yeah, you're right. These are the type of murals that we put up when we're remembering someone. I do remember her. We're shooting a scene in the hallway, I think on the stairs, and we're changing a lens. So she's sitting on an apple box, and the door opens. One of the apartment door opens, and it's a little kid.
Josh: Imagine opening your door and Aaliyah is just sitting there.
Director X: [laughs]
Tracy: Right? Like, "What?" On an apple crate.
Josh: Right.
Director X: So she walks out, and the kid opens the door. There's a kid there, and she has this conversation with the kid. I wonder if the kid's old enough to really remember what that moment was.
Tracy: I love these stories.
Josh: Yeah, they're so good. How do you think the role of the music video has changed?
Director X: Music videos are something for the fans now more than anything else. If you're a fan of a particular artist, you're going to go watch the video for that song, right? So I think now it's much more about connecting with your fans, giving your fans a great show or a great something, something that they can sink their teeth into and really enjoy. A hot record is a hot record.
Tracy: Right.
Director X: Your video cannot change the record, but This Is America, Hotline Bling, the video concept got people talking. It doesn't happen often, but there is a place in the culture where a music video can be at a level where people say, "You need to see this."
Tracy: Mmhmmm. Clearly, things are changing. Do you see a day or worry that one day, music videos just won't be there anymore?
Director X: So many artists grow up watching music videos. They grew up in the 2000s-
Josh: Right.
Director X: ... where we're making TV. Them Busta Rhymes videos, and Missy Elliott videos, the videos I was doing, we were all doing these big productions. So it was like, "Nah, I'm making this music. I want my turn to drive a car off a cliff and do the explosion."
Josh: Exactly, and be Michael Jackson.
Tracy: "I want to walk on the ceiling and get into a car with some bears."
Director X: " Yeah, it's my turn." So I think that part of it is always going to be around, but change is how you get there.
Josh: It really does.
Tracy: For sure.
Josh: I feel so inspired.
Tracy: Absolutely.
Josh: Thank you so much for being so generous with your time and dropping so much knowledge.
Tracy: Come back anytime.
Director X: Thank you.
[Learn Something From This Bounce Remix]
Tracy: So in the words of our patron saint, Tyra Banks, did we ...
[CLIP] Tyra: Learn something from this?
Tracy: A thing that I learned and that I really, really appreciate was Director X saying to just follow your passions, because I feel like that's the thing that we are stripped of as soon as we graduate high school, basically, maybe even middle school. I feel like every adult should have just some arts and craft supplies and just create some shit, just make some shit.
Josh: Yeah.
Tracy: It's good for your brain, first of all, being creative and imagining things, because one of the functions of your imagination is to help you imagine better scenarios when you're stuck in a shitty scenario. I feel like there's such a small population of people that really get to do what they love to do for work, because it's beaten into our heads so early that you've just got to get a job. You're going to hate your job, and that's fine. You've just got to live and survive. No, follow your dreams and what you like to do.
Josh: There are still artists out here that videos are what they like to do. I think about a lot of the women that are in hip hop, like Flo Milli and Meg Thee Stallion, Doja. They still care about these videos. Then there's like Bree Runway. She's out here leaning into that 2000s aesthetic.
Tracy: Yeah.
Josh: It looks like she's very much in the house of the ceiling [laughs]. I just think that it's really dope that the kids are out here and they're still caring about videos. Lil Nas X is giving us what we deserve.
Tracy: Yeah. Montero, is that what it's called?
Josh: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Tracy: It just really captures how important a video can be to the song and how important the video can be to underrepresented people as well.
Josh: Exactly.
Tracy: Well that about does it for the 50-11th Back Issue Video Music Awards. We do have one more performance to round out this beautiful night —
Josh: Actually, Trace, tragically due to budget cuts our Keisha Cole Janet Jackson tribute has fallen through.
Tracy: Awww.
Josh: So instead we’re just going to show that clip of Camila Cabello getting shoved out of the Fifth Harmony performance at the 2017 VMAs over and over again to infinity. Sorry or you’re welcome.
Tracy: What a perfectly shady end to the evening. Goodnight, everyone.
Josh: [laughs]
Tracy: Back Issue is a production of Pineapple Street Studios.
Josh: The show is created and is hosted by Tracy Clayton ...
Tracy: ... and Josh Gwynn.
Josh: That's true.
Tracy: [inaudible]. Our senior producer is also Josh Gwynn, and our lead producer-
Josh: Also true.
Tracy: You know it. Our lead producer is Emmanuel Hapsis, which is also true as well.
Josh: Facts. Our managing producer is John Asante.
Tracy: Our senior editor is Leila Day.
Josh: Our associate producers are Alexis Moore, Xandra Ellin, and Briana Garrett. Our intern is Arlene Arevalo, and our executive producers are Jenna Weiss-Berman and Max Linsky. Our engineers are Raj Makhija and Davy Sumner.
Tracy: This show features amazing music by Don Will. You can follow him on the socials @donwill. You can follow me on the socials @brokeymcpoverty.
Josh: You can follow me @regardingjosh on all the socials. You can subscribe to this podcast wherever free podcasts are sold and leave us a review.
Tracy: Five stars.
Josh: Vote us to the top of 106 and Park.
Tracy: Yes. I want to go meet Free.
Josh: Free and AJ, the only ones I [inaudible].
Tracy: The only ones.
Josh: You can also call the Back Issue hotline with your pop culture emergency at 678-74-ISSUE. That's 678-74-ISSUE.
Tracy: Or remember, you can call and just tell us what your favorite video is.
Josh: Yes.
Tracy: And why is it Untitled by D'Angelo?
Josh: Yeah, using the hashtag backissuepodcast.
Tracy: All right. We did it. We're going to go watch some music videos.
Josh: Eowwwwwww.
[Music fades]
Tracy: Excuse me, Lifetime.
Josh: Lifetime achievement award.
Tracy: How who did it? Show your face. I love it.
-----THE END-----