BACK ISSUE
That Time We Read U, Wrote U
Racers, start your engines ‘cause this week’s maxi challenge is gonna leave you gagging (don’t worry; that’s a good thing). Josh and Tracy tackle the good, the bad, and the ooooh girl of RuPaul’s Drag Race, from favorite moments like Valentina’s prophetic mask and Trinity K. Bonet’s un-bey-lievable comeback to concerning trends like how access to money and designers has become more important than talent on the show. And, because an episode about drag artists demands a sprinkle of EXTRA, Josh and Tracy are also debuting their own drag personas, Chaka Tom and Uncle Tracy. 💅💄💋
Tracy: I like my liquor brown, my money green, and my sugar daddies terminal. Oh, wow. I'm the first one in the workroom for the 444th season of RuPaul's Drag Race. Feels correct because I always come... in first place (laughs). My name is Uncle Tracy. I'm from Louisville, Kentucky. I'm here to act the fucking fool for that crown. Oh, somebody is arriving.
Josh: I can read your thoughts right now, everyone from "Damn" to "They're going to win." My name is Chaka Tom. Bitch, I'm from Chicago and I'm about to snatch these girls' wigs and the crown. Believe that.
Tracy: This queen look like she just put on her makeup with her feet, walks in, wearing the same outfit as me. I mean, you know the dollar store version though, but still.
Josh: The first thing I noticed when I walk into the workroom is Uncle Tracy lookin’ like a raggedy Xerox copy of moi. They have to pick someone to go home first. Ohhh hey, girl. Great minds think alike, I guess.
Tracy: Yeah, girl. I guess it's something like that.
Josh: You look...good.
Tracy: Well, I'm glad your eyes are working. Okay. Is she for real? Chaka Tom is already coming for me. I feel very attacked!
Josh: A wise prophet once said, "Get her J," and that's exactly what I did.
[CLIP] Voice: Beyonce? You look like Luther Vandross.
[CLIP] Voice: Ho, but make it fashion.
[CLIP] Voice: But you ain't heard that from me.
[CLIP] Voice: Fierce
[CLIP] Voice: Call ‘em
[CLIP] Voice: You see, when you do clownery--
[CLIP] Voice: ‘Cuz we won’t stop.
[CLIP] Voice: Can’t get no sleep ‘cuz of y’all--
[CLIP] Voice: the clown comes back to bite.
[CLIP] Voice: Y’all not gonna get no sleep ‘cuz of me.
[CLIP] Voice: It's Britney, bitch.
[CLIP] Voice: [Voices overlapping] We were rooting for you, Tiffany. We were all rooting for you [overlapping voices crescendo]
Tracy: Who said that?
[Intro music stars playing]
Josh: Welcome to Back Issue.
Tracy: A weekly podcast that revisits formative moments in pop culture that we still think about.
Josh: This week, Trace, I hope you brought your charisma [inaudible], nerve, and talent to the recording.
Tracy: And Josh, I hope you came prepared for what is sure to be a podcasta [gunza, eleganza].
Josh: Oh, my God. What a word. We're talking about RuPaul's Drag Race.
Tracy: Yes, the good, the bad, and the ooh, girl.
[CLIP] Voice: Party.
[CLIP] Voice: Back rolls??
[CLIP] Voice: Absolutely.
[CLIP] Voice: Choices.
[CLIP] Voice: Go back to party city where you belong.
[CLIP] Voice: Your tone seems very pointed right now.
[CLIP] Voice: Now, look how orange you fucking look. Now, I'm not joking, bitch.
Tracy: Each week, we'll go back into the past and we visit unforgettable moments we all think we remember.
Josh: And learn what they can teach us about where we are now.
Tracy: I'm Tracy Clayton, aka Uncle Tracy and racers, start your engines.
Josh: I'm Josh Gwynn aka Chaka Tom. May the best drag queen win.
Tracy: I hope the people can hear us both do the arm thing. Hey, Josh, or should I say, Chaka Tom. Chaka, Chaka, Chaka Tom (laughs).
Josh: Chaka, Chaka, Chaka Tom. Chaka Tom. You need to call me that for the rest of the episode, Uncle Trace.
Tracy: I will call you that for the rest of your life if you like. That's fine. I think we are truly going to have a ball today, getting into all things RuPaul's Drag Race, even the parts that make us a little bit uncomfortable.
Josh: Absolutely. It's great. We love it. We watch it,-
Tracy: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Josh: ... but we both recognize it's not not problematic.
Tracy: Right.
Josh: It's got some issues you all. We're going to talk about that today along with the stuff that we love.
Tracy: Yeah.
Josh: I remember all the way back to season one with the Vaseline filter.
Tracy: That was so weird, right? To think that we went all the way from that smudgy ass filter-
Josh: Right.
Tracy: ... to literal multiple Emmy nominations and also wins.
Josh: Do you know that RuPaul, he's won the most Emmy awards of any person of color ever in the history of the Emmys?
Tracy: That's wild.
Josh: It's too much to unpack right now.
Tracy: Right.
Josh: But you know what I do think we could break down?
Tracy: What?
Josh: Our love of Drag Race.
Tracy: Sounds very doable. Let's please.
Josh: Do you remember the first time that you watched Drag Race?
Tracy: When it debuted on Logo, that first season. I did watch it in real time on TV.
Josh: Me too. Me too.
Tracy: But I do know that I revisited the franchise a few years ago because I was sad. I know, shocker. Every time I mention that, I'm just like, "Yeah, guys. It's me. It's me."
Josh: Of course, you watch Drag Race when you're sad.
Tracy: Of course. Right?
Josh: It's perfect. It was engineered for that exact purpose.
Tracy: There's all these colors and these weird ass costumes and these wigs that are sometimes really bad, but then there's also this beautiful artistry, and then there's these warm, fuzzy stories. It's exactly what I needed for the time that I needed it, but I definitely associate this show with warm, fuzzy feelings and bunnies and rainbows and stuff like that. What about you?
Josh: I have a very vivid memory of sitting in my college dorm room. I remember seeing this channel called Logo and being like, "It's all queer stuff?"
Tracy: What?
Josh: That is wild. It's all the stuff that I would watch at home, but have to listen for the garage door to see if my parents were coming home, you know?
Tracy: Right. Right, right.
Josh: But I was alone in college and I could watch whatever the fuck I wanted to, and so I did. Drag Race was one of those things. I remember the Vaseline lens. I remember Ongina with her bald head.
Tracy: I loved Ongina.
Josh: Merle Ginsberg.
Tracy: Wait, who?
Josh: Exactly. I was just hooked. They had everything I wanted to experience, like music, fashion, and sewing, and reading. Sign me up.
Tracy: I know that this is going to be a very difficult exercise, but I want to talk about our favorite Drag Race moments.
Josh: Ugh, I feel like there's too many to list.
Tracy: There is, of course.
Josh: Especially in today's times. I feel like I referenced Valentina and her mask daily.
[CLIP] Voice: Take that thing off of your mouth.
Voice: I'd like to keep it on, please.
Tracy: It's too timely. Isn't that your fault?
Josh: Valentina, the prophet. What are your favorite moments?
Tracy: That season with RuPaul just trolled the fuck out of Miss Fame because she asked her once, "How's your head?" Of course, she didn't get the pun.
[CLIP] RuPaul: Miss Fame, how's your head?
Miss Fame: It hurts. I could barely hear a thing inside this muff.
Josh: No complaints, is what you're supposed to say.
Tracy: But she never got it, so I would just be like, "Oh, it's fine. Thanks. Thanks for asking." How's your head? Good.
Josh: I actually just had a headache.
Tracy: Similarly, there was that season when Crystal Methyd, she had this mullet and RuPaul thought that the mullet made them look like El DeBarge.
Josh: Because it did.
[CLIP] RuPaul: Do you know you have the hair of El DeBarge?
Crystal Methyd: I don't know who that is, no.
RuPaul: He was in the group DeBarge and they sang a song (singing).
Josh: RuPaul's whole life lesson is be in on the joke.
Tracy: Yes. If you're not in on the joke, then woe is to be had unto you-
Josh: Right.
Tracy: ... because they would play Rhythm Of The Night every time Crystal Methyd popped up on the screen.
Josh: Do you feel the rhythm of the night? (singing)
Tracy: I love it. I love a good inside joke.
Josh: Me too. Another moment that I love is when they do musicals or they all have to perform a song.
Tracy: Rusicals, yes.
Josh: Read U Wrote U is so fun.
[CLIP of “Read U Wrote U”]
Josh: The thing that I love about it is that it does what a girl group song is supposed to do.
Tracy: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Josh: All of the members shine in their different ways. You have Alaska. She comes out. She's being weird.
[CLIP] Alaska: Hey, girls. My name's Alaska. I gotta tiny little question to ask ya. Who's that bitch that's on the top? Oh, wait, that's me. Hey, Porkchop.
Josh: Then you have Detox come out. Her look is just so severe. And she's also admitting that she's not the best, but she's also saying that she's not the worst, which I think is an interesting strategy to win something.
Tracy: It's me, (laughs) honestly.
[CLIP] Detox: Detox coming at you with a slow verse. I'm a speed it up, I had to shut it down first. Killing bitches' so hard, need a pink hearse. I ain't saying I'm the best, but I ain't the worst.
Josh: Then you have Roxxxy Andrews in this Womanizer Britney Spears body catsuit, and the wind is hitting her wig just right and she's writing in all these books. It was just giving you performance art.
[CLIP] Roxxy: I'm Roxxy Andrews and I'm here to make it clear. I know you love me, baby, that's why you brought me here. Was a bitch on season five, I'm going to make it right. Give me a sewing challenge and I'll give you what you like.
Josh: This Roxxxy Andrews verse is so iconic. It's referenced in so many different seasons because I feel like everyone's making fun of it, but I secretly love it. I feel like our producer, Emmanuel, judges me for liking it,-
Tracy: Yes.
Josh: ... but I stand in it.
Tracy: You know what? Sometimes you got to-
Josh: I'm not going to have Roxxxy Andrews rapping for me at the cipher,-
Tracy: Wow.
Josh: ... but that was fun.
Tracy: What a way to [inaudible]. Everybody hates this, but I love it. Wouldn't great for me though. I wouldn't be caught, but no.
Josh: It's its own thing. It's its own thing.
Tracy: Shaded.
Josh: If you ever want to see a moment in which Drag Race and Marina Abramović crossover, It is Katya in this song.
[CLIP] Katya: Yekaterina Petrovna Zamolodchikova, but your dad just calls me Katya.
Josh: She's performing in character as a Russian prostitute.
Tracy: Which love, first of all.
Josh: She's doing splits as a walk.
Tracy: Oh, I remember.
Josh: It's wild. It's so much fun.
[Music break]
Josh: But I think maybe my favorite moment in Drag Race history, which is very basic, but it's basic for a reason because it works. At the end of each season, they have these lip-sync tournaments basically where it's like these two people lip-sync, and then the winner lip-syncs this person. Then that winner-
Tracy: Sometimes, they lip-sync and all together, they won.
Josh: That's too much, but...
Tracy: Yeah.
Josh: Shea Coulee's season. I was the biggest Shea Coulee fan. She's so well-rounded.
Tracy: So talented.
Josh: She's performing against Sasha Velour, who's a heady artist slash academic-
[CLIP] Sasha: My name is Sasha Velour. I am a bald fashion-y, artistic weird queen.
Tracy: Sasha's one of my favs.
Josh: I love her too. The thing about this performance is that it's truly one of those moments where I feel like no one saw it coming. In any other world, if you put Sasha Velour and Shea Coulee up against each other, I think most people would be like, "Shea Coulee is coming for it.
Tracy: Right.
Josh: She's winning."
Tracy: But Shea dances and jumps and flips.
Josh: [inaudible] and all of that stuff. They're lip-syncing to So Emotional by Whitney Houston. At the first chorus, you hear Whitney singing, I get so emotional, baby, and Sasha pulls off her glove and rose petals come out of it. The next chorus, Sasha pulls out her other glove, rose petals come out of it. The final chorus where Whitney is at the top of her vocals,-
Tracy: I feel like the listening audience should know. If you're not familiar with Sasha Velour, she typically performs bald.
Josh: Yeah. She usually has no hair. So it's a shock to see her in this red wig in the first place.
Tracy: Yes.
Josh: She lifts her wig and rose petals fall everywhere on the stage.
[CLIP from Sasha and Shea’s lip sync challenge]
Josh: It's just beautiful and it ties so much with the emotional climax of that song.
Tracy: She didn't just lift it from her head either. If you're listening to this and you haven't seen it, you have to pause right now and go look at it because it's like she tears the wig off of her head from some invisible force. And then her arms are shaking, and then this waterfall of rose petals happens.
Josh: Her work is always about problematizing gender and our ideas of gender.
[CLIP] Sasha: Bend the rules, don’t surrender. A thinking queen-
Josh: So the idea that she's out here in a wig, you already know something's off.
Tracy: Yeah.
Josh: You already know she's about to make some sort of commentary on traditional ideas of what femininity looks like. So when she lifts her wig and then beauty happens, you see just-
Tracy: Yes.
Josh: ... rose petals of her in her bald-headed glory, it was a moment.
Tracy: It's impossible not to be moved by it.
Josh: I just think it's one of those moments that I wish I could forget so I could watch it again.
[Music fades]
Tracy: There was so many other good moments, but I must say that my favorite Drag Race moment is actually an entire person.
Josh: Who?
Tracy: Can I please [inaudible]? Can I sing to you the word of the glory of the person-
Josh: Please, please.
Tracy: ... that is Trinity K. Bonet because I feel like Trinity's story is just such a perfectly constructed linear progression of a person who enters this competition shy, very introverted, did not believe in herself at all, but has all of the goods.
Josh: But she don't know it. It's the story that Drag Race is probably the best at telling, which is the inner saboteur.
Tracy: Exactly. It's that inner saboteur. It's so relatable because who amongst us does not have that, first of all?
Josh: Absolutely.
Tracy: Just feeling like you're worth anything and just that struggle. It just really illustrated how impossible it is to see it sometimes.
Josh: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Tracy: She's on it first, not believe in herself. The saboteur wins. Then though, my sister came back-
Josh: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Tracy: ... on all stars, pop and bow. What's up, bitches? Just loud and taking up space and being hilarious and being funny and killing it and crushing it. Here's a moment that I think exemplifies the whole arc of Trinity's transition from meek, little drag baby to drag goddess that she is now.
Josh: The hero's journey.
Tracy: The hero's journey. We love a hero's journey, right? So, on the season where Trinity and Bianca Del Rio were on together, Trinity had referred to herself as Beyonce.
[CLIP] Trinity K. Bonet: I would love to be Beyonce in Vegas.
Bianca Del Rio: I haven't seen anybody that looks like Beyonce.
Trinity K. Bonet: I have nothing to prove to you.
Bianca Del Rio: Really, bitch?
Tracy: Bianca Del Rio is like, "Beyonce? More like Sammy Davis Jr. in a wig." Low fucking blow, Bianca. When I see you in the streets, stay on the other side. Fast forward to AllStars season six, which just wrapped not long ago. Ms. Trinity does Beyonce. (singing)
Josh: Can I say, you know how wax figures never get Beyonce right?
Tracy: Yes.
Josh: Madame Tussaud and Beyonce must have beef from back in the day because those wax figures never ever looked good. I feel the same way about Drag Race. Anyone who ever pretended to be Beyonce on snatch game, bomb, awful. Do you hate her? What is wrong with you? Until this moment?
Tracy: Yes.
Josh: This was the best BeyHive experience that anyone has ever had on RuPaul's Drag Race.
Tracy: Yes.
Josh: It's so good!
Tracy: Trinity absolutely killed it-
Josh: Killed it.
Tracy: ... in the Super Bowl Black Panther fit. Come on now.
Josh: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Tracy: There's y’all mother fucking Sammy Davis Jr. in a wig, Bianca. I feel like it's one of the most comprehensive times that we can see that that arc is possible.
Josh: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Tracy: We often see people at their worst and just really hard on themselves and down on themselves. Then at the end of the show, the message is, oh, you just need to believe in yourself some more and then you can do it. Then they leave and then that's it. Did they ever do it? Maybe they can't do it. Maybe it's all a lot. Trinity K. Bonet came back just to show you personally that that shit is possible.
[Music fades into Snatch Game]
[CLIP] RuPaul: Welcome to snatch game. Let's meet our contestants.
Tracy: Hey, what's up you all? Excuse. Pardon me. I am Ms. Cleo. The cards don't lie. I see a win in my future. That was Ms. Cleo.
Josh: (laughs) I'm Meghan McCain. As the princess of Arizona, if I don't win this game, you're going to know that it was rigged.
[CLIP] RuPaul: The ladies of The View sure like to bicker. Just last week, they were arguing about whose blank was bigger.
Tracy: Well, RuPaul, you don’t have to be psychic to know the answer here. Okay. Here, me see the King of Cups and that means somebody's husband feel cheated on him with another member of the cast. It features 99 cents a minute, me tell you who it is. What's your credit card number, and then your social, and your pin number too? Just write it all down. Just write it all down. I'll get that. I'll get that. The cards, they don't lie.
[CLIP] RuPaul: All right. Dumb Didi is so dumb, she thinks the C-word is short for blank.
Josh: I think that C stands for constitution because I, the owner of the American Constitution have a copy of it right by my bedside table. Did you know that the founders wrote it just for me? So founders intent is actually my intent. My favorite part is when white Jesus and white Santa had a summit. Of course, my father, John McCain, was there. They decided on the 25th of December, whoever leaves out cookies and marinates, gets the gun and one excused instance of blackface.
[CLIP] RuPaul: It's a good answer, but not a match, darling.
Tracy: Cheating. The C-word is cheating because that's what you are doing. You think your husband don't know, but your husband know and the cards know. You want to know what else the cards know? Girl, I’m not Jamaican.
[CLIP] RuPaul: All right. I'm afraid we've run out of time. The winner is... Who cares? Thanks for joining us everyone. Until next time. RuPaul out. Say goodnight stars.
Josh: Bye, bitch. I mean me and Ms. Cleo love to call each other bitch. We have a relationship where I can call her bitch and she can call me bitch. Shocker, we get along backstage, so bye, bitch.
Tracy: Well, my card just told me that if this bitch called me a bitch again, it's going to be a misunderstanding. I don’t care who your daddy is.
Josh: So we just walked through some of the reasons that we love the show, moments that stick in our mind, contestants we love. But I think it's only fair that we acknowledge this show has problems too.
Tracy: And two, it is not perfect. It's almost inevitable. This is a show that has systematically made something that was counterculture for a really long time. They took that and made it into mainstream media, not just in America, but fucking worldwide.
Josh: Right.
Tracy: Internationally.
Josh: How do you make something that is by definition, a subversion of what everyone thinks into what everyone thinks?
Tracy: Exactly.
Josh: How do you do that? There's this catering to this white, cis, straight audience.
Tracy: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Josh: If you're a fan of the show and you're not white, then you're probably quite aware of how racist the fandom could be.
Tracy: Yeah. For sure. Because ultimately, this is media that's being produced by white media companies. And when that happens, that means that the barometer is always, what do white people like? What do white people think is funny? What do white people think that art is? And like it's bizarre and sad and jarring to see that transposed onto the medium of drag, which is inherently black.
Josh: Say that again?
Tracy: It's inherently black. Drag, Drag Race, ballroom, all of that. That is some black ass shit that people who are not black are allowed to participate in. And you can feel that at times stronger than others. And for me, I feel it very, very strongly when I try to watch the international versions of this show, like Drag Race UK, and Drag Race Canada. I could not stomach it. Because the dissonance between queer white men being in this space that is very, very black and very, very female, very feminized with this whole ignorance of black American women. The further you get away from Black American women, there's this multiplicity effect. Right? You remember that movie?
Josh: No.
Tracy: You know what, it's fine. Nobody remembers Multiplicity, but me. And who was in it, Michael Keaton? I remember Michael Keaton. Okay.
Josh: Oh my God.
Tracy: But the premise of that movie is like, there's somebody who has a clone made of him. And then there's a clone made of the clone and the clone made of the clone. And each clone gets dumber and stupider further away from the original source. And I think that that is what's happening when I try to watch Drag Race UK or Australia, I'm just like, you don't know any black women. Is this what you think we are like? Is this what you think we sound like, walk like, talk like?
[Music fades]
Josh: There's this TikTok and it's this girl named Danessy and she's making a comment on how gen Z really thinks of AAVE as belonging to them.
Tracy: Yeah. It's young lingo, not black lingo.
Josh: AAVE is a dialect. It has syntax. Yeah. It has rules. And you can tell when someone isn't fluent and then they're messing it up and she's like ...
[CLIP] Danessy: Okay, why don't you just stay to yourself period? And I'll stay to myself, period. You look on fleek. I look on fleek. We both slay. So you need to know how to finna mind your business, because then we gonna finna have problems. You hear me from finna [inaudible] and [Ferb]?
Josh: It is so funny because I've heard so many people talk like that. And so I can a hundred percent understand how all of these cultural references and ways of operating and ways of walking and dancing and getting further away from the source feels more like a facsimile of a facsimile of a facsimile.
Tracy: Exactly. One of my favorite ways to tell that somebody on Twitter doesn't actually know any black people in real life is how they pronounce the shortened version of Beyonce's name. If they say Bay, instead of B.
Josh: You are done. You're done.
Tracy: The jig's up. You've never seen a black person in your real life. We know it. We see you.
Josh: Bay. Where why do they even think that?
Tracy: "Queen Bay is back at it again." Bitch, shut up, you're fired. You're fired.
Josh: But I think that language is really important thing we should think about when we think about the historical legacy of this show. Because I think that a lot of people think of these words, like fierce and work and yes, and spilling tea and ...
Tracy: All ballroom. Gagging. Shade.
Josh: They're all ballroom, they're all ballroom. And they think that it comes from Drag Race and that causes a cultural problem, when people are able to claim authorship of something that did not begin with them.
Tracy: Do you remember when all the white people on the internet thought that one of the girls from Broad City invented "yas queen"?
Josh: Yes, I absolutely do.
Tracy: And that was another way that I could tell if people knew a black person or not, because they would say, "Yas." If you're out there saying "yas," white people, we caught you.
Josh: Who goes, "Yas!"
Tracy: You don't know that's not how you say it at all. And you know what, I'm not even going to do it for you right now because I'm going to leave you out there in the dark. But if you know ...
Josh: You know.
Tracy: ... you know how you supposed to say it. If you know you know.
Josh: If you know you know.
Tracy: Speaking of language, so you know how in the show, whenever there's an email or RuMail or whatever it's called, she's like, "She done ready to have hers." [crosstalk] Do you know the story of that particular phrase?
Josh: Absolutely not. What is that?
Tracy: Oh, well, we should learn together.
RuPaul: I was coming from the club and I went to Krystal Burger, this is in Atlanta, Georgia. And we would go and get our food on after partying and everything. Somebody had come up to pick up a bag, but it actually didn't belong to them. And this girl behind the counter said, "Uh-uh, no, no, no, no. She done already had herses." And of course I was taking that to the bank.
Tracy: What I want to know is has the woman that Ru lifted this phrase from seen a dime of the money that she got when she took it to the bank?
Josh: Have you ever had a phrase you used in passing while frustrated at your service job stolen by the world's most famous drag queen? You may be entitled to financial compensation.
Tracy: Class action lawsuits are coming.
Josh: I do think that there's a level of being able to be inspired by the world around you. Good artists steal. That's a real thing. You know?
Tracy: Yeah. Like Nas said, no idea's original. You probably stole that from somebody.
Josh: (Laughs) I wouldn't necessarily say that a drag queen back when Ru Paul was coming up, that doesn't necessarily feel like punching down.
[Music break]
Tracy: Do you know what does feel like punching down to me sometimes though? When it's an issue of money. The show definitely has a very definite stance that it takes on what is good, what is fashion, what's high fashion, what looks good, what doesn't. And it stands to reason that the more money you have as a contestant on the show to buy all of the gowns or have all the gowns custom made, whatever, the better that you're likely to do when you're in front of Ru Paul and hateful-ass Michelle Visage. You know what I'm saying? You're not going to want to stand up there in some fucking, I don't know, something you found in Burlington.
Josh: It's interesting because I really think that this is something that has evolved. If you think back to that Vaseline season. None of the girls were featuring labels.
Tracy: No, no, no, no. It was all wet seal child.
Josh: It was all wet seal, but you still got to see people's different point of views. You still got to see different characters.
Tracy: And a sense of their fashion and style. And [crosstalk]
Josh: Exactly. As the show has grown, as it's moved from Logo to VH one, its gotten a bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger platform, the pressure to increase the production value in all ways has gotten to them. And it's really ironic because usually with reality television, it's like, come as you are. The interesting thing is to see these seven people, random people in a house.
Tracy: How do you all deal with the same situation?
Josh: Exactly. But this show has morphed into a situation where every season is all stars because every season you have to come prepared with a budget in a way that may not have been so true in the past.
Tracy: Yeah. They love this. "Oh, she's a crafty queen," means, "That bitch broke."
Josh: She's a country queen.
Tracy: Exactly. She's a resourceful queen.
Josh: One of the things that I think about is Chi Chi DeVayne, RIP. On her season, she was the crafty queen. Chi Chi just had that thing that lit up room. and I just remember Michelle Visage, bodyguard tracking, reading Chi Chi down.
Tracy: For not having money
[CLIP] Chi Chi DeVayne: I'm a cheap queen. I don't have any money. I don't have the expenses to pay for something like this.
Michelle: Hold on. You don't need money, girl. There are thrift stores. There are crafty. There are many a queen that I have seen that have got not a pot to pee in. That's never an excuse.
Josh: Is it? RuPaul's Richest Drag Queen Race or is it RuPaul's Drag Race? There needs to be a way that you can show your creative point of view without having a billion dollars. Has to be.
Tracy: Exactly. Also, can we just acknowledge that sometimes not having money is a barrier to shit. See people with money love saying money isn't everything, but just like Kanye said, RIP old Kanye. Money ain't everything but not having it is. You don't say that to nobody who doesn't have any fucking money. "Don't use this as an excuse." What?
Josh: They had that UK season and Ru Paul was yelling at this girl. Like, "I don't want to see any fucking H and M.
[CLIP] RuPaul: Don't waste my time. I don't want to see any fucking H and M.
Josh: And then they got eliminated.
Tracy: And you know what I got on right now? Some fucking H and M, so my life, huh Ru Paul?
Josh: Actually I do too!
Tracy: Well since we got both broke bitches in H and M I guess there is nothing left to do but for us to sashay away.
Josh: Miss Vanjie.
Tracy: Miss Vanjie.
Josh: Miss Vanjie.
[CLIP] RuPaul: Sashay away.
Miss Vanjie: Miss Vanjie. Miss Vanjie. Miss Vanjie. [crosstalk].
Josh: More Drag Race after the break.
AD BREAK
Josh: Uncle Trace has been coming from me ever since we came into the work room.
Tracy: God girl. Get a grip on your Q-tip because your ears must be clogged. I never said anything bad about you other than you look like a dollar store imitation of me and that you could never get a sugar daddy.
Josh: Well at least I don't got back rolls.
Tracy: Back rolls?
Josh: What do you do successfully? Quickly.
Tracy: I will whoop your ass. I am from Chicago. I mean, I am from Louisville.
Josh: I don't know why you are yelling at me. What do you expect girl, this ain't Ru Paul's best friend race. So Trace.
Tracy: So what?
Josh: Did we-
[CLIP] Tyra: Learn something from this?
Tracy: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I have a really, really brilliant idea.
Josh: I'm terrified.
Tracy: So this is the second to last episode of season two, right?
Josh: Yup.
Tracy: You know how at the end of every Drag Race season, there's always a moment where Ru shows each queen a photo of herself as a child and then they have to address their younger selves, like, how would five-year-old Joey... What would you say to five-year-old Joey?
Josh: Kind of, but I usually fast forward through this one.
Tracy: Why? It's so sweet and tender.
Josh: That's why.
Tracy: Okay. Well, you know what? That's fair enough. I also do not like to be made to feel my own feelings.
Josh: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Tracy: So that's fair.
Josh: What if I make up for it and we do that here?
Tracy: You know what I was going to say.
Josh: Have you tried it? Have you tried it?
Tracy: You know. That's it. That's it. So [Chaka Tom].
Josh: Chaka Tom. Chaka Tom. Chaka Tom.
Tracy: What would you tell young, naive, little baby Josh of 12 weeks ago before we started recording this season?
Josh: First of all, thank you for allowing me to be here today. Drag Race is very emblematic of how important the work that we do here on Back Issue is. We look back, we contextualize Black culture, especially Black culture that we take for granted. Drag Race is the mainstream whitewash version of an art form that has its roots in Black culture.
Tracy: Right.
Josh: So the work that we're doing of naming whose cultural work is who's, I think is really important. I think that Drag Race is a really good example of why that's important. Also, when I was 12, my mom dropped me off at the bus stop.
Tracy: What's happening? You know what? Cut the microphone. Cut the mic.
Josh: You don't remember Roxxxy Andrews? Was like, "My mom dropped me of."
Tracy: I do. I do. I'd be so conflicted watching those moments because I just be like, did somebody just tap you on a shoulder and be like, "Can you tell the saddest story of your whole life right now in this moment?"
Josh: So remember the trauma we talked about earlier? Go.
Tracy: Well, it started when I was nine.
Josh: But I really do value this space, Tracy. I really think that the work that we're doing is important. I think that it's fun. I think that it's really affirming to think about these things that feel ephemeral and feel like people forget about them.
Tracy: Mm-hmm (affirmative). We were told that they didn't matter.
Josh: Exactly.
Tracy: Of course they matter. All of this stuff matters. Just because it don't matter to white people don't mean it don't matter.
Josh: Exactly.
Tracy: I feel like in that spirit, we're doing the same work that RuPaul is doing.
Josh: Except the fracking.
[CLIP] Voice: Oh, the fracking? No, no, not that.
Josh: Not the fracking!
Tracy: Except the fracking.
Josh: How about you? Your turn?
Tracy: I would like to say that I would really like everyone to stop using the phrase, "If you don't love yourself, how in the hell are you going to love somebody else?" Stop it. Stop it.
Josh: You need to leave! But wait, RuPaul says that at the end of every episode. Why do you think it's wrong?
Tracy: And RuPaul needs to stop because it's not true. Of course, we know how to love other people, generally speaking. What's harder for you in particular, Josh, loving the people that you love or loving yourself?
Josh: I feel like I've loved people my entire life.
Tracy: Yeah.
Josh: It was a journey to learn to love yourself.
Tracy: Exactly, exactly.
Josh: If you could pull RuPaul aside and be like, "I have some notes," what would you say?
Tracy: I would say that this idea that you can't love anyone else until you learn how to love yourself is wrong. It's fake. It's misguided. What she should say is if you can't love yourself, then how are you going to keep all these toxic ass people from coming on into your life and mistreating you? Because when you love yourself, you don't know about that shit. See what I'm saying? So if you can't love yourself, how are you going to demand love from other people and know when you're getting it? That's the thing.
Josh: Okay, Tracy.
Tracy: That's what I would say, RuPaul.
Josh: Okay.
Tracy: That mean it just is. It just is. So wait, what's the good, concise way to... If you can't love yourself then how the hell are you going... It's not as snappy. I see why RuPaul does it now. Okay. Okay.
Josh: What about the season? What would you tell yourself about the season?
Tracy: About the season, I would say, you know what bitch? You did a good job. Bitch, you did a good job. Bitch, you did a good job.
Josh: He did a good job.
[CLIP] Voice: Bitch, you're doing a good job. Bitch, you're doing a good job. Bitch, you're doing a good job. Bitch, you're doing a good job.
Tracy: Because look, man, shit's hard out here in the world.
Josh: Okay.
Tracy: Doing stuff is hard. Making this show is no exception.
Josh: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Tracy: It was hard, but we did it. All of us can get that tattooed on our chest. It was hard, but we did it because that is every day around this motherfucker world.
Josh: Okay. I'm going to skip that one. But one of my favorite things about this show is the fact that we get to talk about this stuff, but also, that we get to work with the team that we get to work with.
Tracy: Yes.
Josh: We have the best producers, the best managing producer, the best editor, the best engineers, and I feel lucky every single day.
Tracy: Seriously. I feel like everybody says it's about their teams, but I have been blessed to mean it every time I've said it after making the show. A good team, they're kind and they're empathetic and they get it, especially in a pandemic, you need that. You show up to work like, "Yeah man, I can't be on camera today."
Josh: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Tracy: I don't want nobody to be like, "No, we really need to see your face." Why? You don't.
Josh: Right.
Tracy: And this is a team that gets that, like, "All right. I just come through the team. Glad you let us hold you up and support you. What do you need" Now, I'm starting to get a little misty eyed because it's real true. [inaudible]. I want to say thank you all. Oh, wait, we still got one more episode. This ain't the final [inaudible].
Josh: And I'm really excited about it.
Tracy: Back Issue is a production of Pineapple Street Studios.
Josh: This show was created and is hosted by Uncle Tracy.
Tracy: That's me, aka Tracy Clayton. It's also created and hosted by Chaka Tom.
Josh: Chaka Tom. Chaka Tom. Chaka Tom. That's me, Josh Gwynn.
Tracy: Our senior producer is also Josh Gwynn and our lead producer is Emmanuel Hapsis.
Josh: Our managing producer is John Asante.
Tracy: Our senior editor is Leila Day.
Josh: Our associate producers are Alexis Moore, Xandra Ellin, and Briana Garrett. Our intern is Arlene Arevalo. Our executive producers are Jenna Weiss-Berman, Max Linsky. Our engineers are Raj Makhija and Davy Sumner.
Tracy: This show also features amazing music by Donwill. You can follow him on all the socials @donwill and you can follow me on the socials @brokeymcpoverty.
Josh: You can follow me @regardingjosh and you can follow the show on Instagram @backissuepodcast. You can subscribe to this podcast wherever free podcasts are sold. Leave us a review.
Tracy: Five stars, five stars, five stars or go home. Five stars or go home and leave me alone.
Josh: Oh, bars. Shut up, Trace. We'll see you all later.
[Music fades]
Tracy: Bye. Well, RuPaul, you're not be psychic to know the answer here, okay?
Josh: Shut up! (laughs)
Tracy: It's the only way I'm going to get through this, Joshua.
Josh: I'm so...
Tracy: I need you to hold it together.
Josh: Where is mute? (laughs)
-----THE END-----