BORDERLINE SALTY

Welcome to Borderline Salty! The show where Carla Lalli Music and Rick Martinez take your calls, boost your confidence and make you a better, smarter, happier cook. 

In the first episode, the hosts get into the allium question, dissect authenticity and weigh in on a viral custard toast method. 

This week’s recipe book: 

As always, we’d love to hear about your cooking conundrums at 833-433-FOOD (3663). 

Find us on Instagram @borderlinesalty

Find full episode transcripts and more about the podcast on our website borderlinesalty.fm. 

If you can’t get enough of our hosts – we don’t blame you! Check out Carla's cookbooks here and find links to her YouTube channel, Patreon, and Instagram at www.carlalallimusic.com. 

You can pre-order Rick’s upcoming cookbook here, watch the companion Mi Cocina video series here, and find all of his socials at www.rick-martinez.com

EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION

 Rick Martinez: Hi, I'm Rick Martinez, I am a cookbook author and lover of all things sweet and spicy, and I am currently living in beautiful, sunny Mazatlan, Mexico. 

Carla Lalli Music: And I'm Carla Lalli Music. I'm also a cookbook author, professionally trained chef and video host based in beautiful Brooklyn, New York. 

Rick Martinez: And we've been solving and laughing our way through food problems together for more than a decade at test kitchens, videos and magazines. 

Carla Lalli Music: Has it truly been more than a decade? 

Rick Martinez: I don't know why I said that, it's like, I can't even deal. 

Carla Lalli Music: You look like a million bucks. 

Rick Martinez: Oh my god, you look fabulous. That skin, that hair. 

Carla Lalli Music: Ever since we've known each other, we've worked together to improve each other's recipes, solve cooking conundrums and come up with delicious new ideas. 

Rick Martinez: And now we're doing it here on Borderline Salty, the show where we take your calls, boost your confidence and make you a better, smarter, happier cook. 

Carla Lalli Music: I'm happier since I knew you. 

Rick Martinez: Oh, I'm so much happier since I knew you. Today, we're getting into the allium question, dissecting authenticity and weighing in on custard toast. 

Carla Lalli Music: But before we get into all of that, we're going to kick the show off today, the way we will kick the show off every week, and that is with something good. So Rick, tell me something good. 

Rick Martinez: Well, you know what's actually beyond good, Carla? 

Carla Lalli Music: Tell me 

Rick Martinez: This podcast. It's finally here. We have been working on this podcast for a while. You've been working on it for years. I came on about a year ago and it has been one of the joys in my life. Like, no matter what is happening out there in the universe, I know that I am going to laugh my face off and try really hard to make you laugh. 

Carla Lalli Music: That's what I was going to say. I think like the the thing that blows me away about making this podcast with you is like, how joyful it is, how fun it is, the fact that you moved to Mexico and I see you now more than like ever. 

Rick Martinez: Yeah.

Carla Lalli Music: Is also amazing. And it's like our time to be together. It's just amazing. So it is, as you said it is, is better than good. It's great. 

Rick Martinez: And I am happy to be called mama and food daddy. So. 

Carla Lalli Music: So true. I know, people like my internet mom and dad are making a podcast. 

Rick Martinez: I know who knew that we would become America's mom and food dad? But you know, like, actually so a smaller thing that happened yesterday. 

Carla Lalli Music: Yeah.

Rick Martinez: Is I cooked for a group of friends and you know, they're there from here in Mazatlan. Actually, a couple of them were from Guadalajara. But I cooked something, and one of the things that I love doing is surprising Mexicans who have grown up here, have grown up with the cuisine. And when I can actually present something that is not only new, but something that just, you see that look, and I know, you know, this look, it's that look, when someone takes a bite of food and it's just utter and pure joy that just like goes across their face and you know that they love what they're eating. They can't even verbalize it because they just are shoveling more food into their into their mouths. And I know that that is a successful dish at that moment, and it's just so gratifying and it made me so happy.

Carla Lalli Music: That is truly the ultimate validation. 

Rick Martinez: Exactly. I mean, that's why that's why I cook. I just literally for that reaction. But what is good with you? 

Carla Lalli Music: Well, my something good is extremely recent, like happened in the last 20 minutes, in fact, this morning I was working on something else and kind of took longer than I should have. And I needed to roast a couple of chickens because we're going away with friends later today and I want to bring dinner so that when we get where we're going, we don't have to start cooking. And I managed to spatchcock, flatten, season two chickens, not one, but two, and get them in the oven in 14 minutes. 

Rick Martinez: Stop it. Wait. 

Carla Lalli Music: I'm really proud of myself. 

Rick Martinez: Oh my god, that's amazing. Wow. 

Carla Lalli Music: Got it done before noon. It was still A.M. 

Rick Martinez: That is insane. Oh my god. 

Carla Lalli Music: The delicious aromas of roast chicken are wafting through the air, so I feel very accomplished. I could just lie back down for the rest of the day and feel like my to-do list was done. 

Rick Martinez: That pales in comparison to the wafting smell of my yogurt right next to me. So thanks for that. It's time to answer some of our caller questions!

Beandrea: Hi, Rick and Carla this is Beandrea and I have a question for you about pancakes. I love pancakes. I typically make them every Saturday. And I'm wondering, do you have any tips on how to flip pancakes properly so that you don't have that spillage that you sort of maintain your perfect circle? Am I flipping too soon? Can't wait to hear your response. Thanks. 

Rick Martinez: So this is the perfect question for you. You, you and Cosmo are like the pancake dynamic duo. 

Carla Lalli Music: I think I've been making pancakes every weekend for my younger child, Cosmo, for going on nine years now.

Rick Martinez: Oh my god. 

Carla Lalli Music: I make a lot of pancakes on a lot of Saturdays. And so there's a recipe in Where Cooking Begins called Cosmo's Power Pancakes, which was developed with him for him. And essentially, it's just because he was like a total pancake monster and he has such a sweet tooth. So it was like, is it about the pancake is about the maple syrup? You know, hard to tell, but instead of not giving the kid pancakes because like, I just come from a place where, like loving food is good, right? We want to like, keep that going for as long as possible and have this healthy relationship with food being an important and wonderful source of pleasure and sustenance in your life. But I was like, how can I push it a little bit so that there's a little bit more protein, maybe a little bit more fiber, maybe things that are going to keep him fuller longer. So I just started adding like, seeds and some whole wheat flour, and it's got chia seeds and flax meal hemp hearts, you know, sunflower – oats, whatever added to it. Delicious. We all still eat them. 

Rick Martinez: So now when you were making them, were they perfect circles or do you even worry about such things? 

Carla Lalli Music: No, they're definitely not perfect circles. And for me, it was figuring out the texture of the batter than it was like what shape it was once it got onto the griddle. But one trick for a round pancake, though, that I have learned is like instead of trying to pour it into a circle, like if you just pour the batter straight down where it hits, it will like spread out into a circle on its own, because something with physics.

Rick Martinez: Right? Yeah, yeah.

Carla Lalli Music: Unclear.

Rick Martinez: So I used to work at ABC Kitchen, a brunch for whatever god awful reason other than the chef hated me, but I remember, you know, on saute, one of the big – besides the eggs cooked to temperature – that's another that's another episode. I also had the fortune of being able to make everyone on Saturday and Sunday in downtown New York pancakes. And the trick that I learned is you pour the the pancake batter out and then with the bottom of the rounded part of the ladle, you just sort of lightly tap and then swirl. But just to kind of push the batter out from the center because it's going to want to pile up in the center. So if you push it out, then it'll like sort of spread gently into a perfect circle because as we all know, during brunch, people want perfectly circular pancakes. 

Carla Lalli Music: So one thing I've also learned from making pancakes for Cosmo and then, you know, eventually this child wants to flip the pan – Like, that's like half of, you know, I want to flip the pancake and you're like, No kid, you're not old enough. You can't do it, you have to be like, yes, climb up on the stepladder and like, let's do this. And from watching and teaching both both of these children about flipping pancakes, the first instinct I think we have as humans is –  and not in general, but with flipping pancakes. I think our first instinct is to is like, I need to get to the nipple. That's really the first instinct. But later, the first instinct –

Rick Martinez: After that. 

Carla Lalli Music: Shortly after that, you're like, I need to flip a pancake pretty soon. And the first time someone flips a pancake, they want to flip it like left to right, like they're flipping the page of a book, right? And what happens when you do that is in the kind of like tilting to go to the left. That's when things can get kind of messy. So when you're flipping a pancake, I've learned to like, pick it up and then turn it over as you put it back down exactly where it was. So instead of, you know, going from like east to west with it, just go like up and over. 

Rick Martinez: I think people get really scared of that. And I always think of Julia Child and, you know, and she talked about there was an episode where she was making, I think it was either an omelet or a frittata or something like that. And, and she talked about having the courage of your convictions and when you're flipping. And you just have to like, you have to commit to it and then just do it.

Carla Lalli Music: Yes. Hundred percent.

Rick Martinez:  And if it doesn't work out, her famous response is she's like, flips it in potato and egg go everywhere. She just picks it up off the counter, sticks it back in the pan and arranges it. And she's like. And if it doesn't work out, who's to know? 

Carla Lalli Music: Yeah. You know, who doesn't care if the pancakes round or not? Like, anyone that you're bringing a pancake to, they're just psyched. 

Rick Martinez: Unless they're a paying customer, then fuck them!

Carla Lalli Music: They’re a customer at ABC kitchen. Next, caller, please. 

Brittany: Hi, um, my name is Brittany. I guess my question was, what do you guys do with like the very last wilty bit, of something almost a little ripe avocado, or a little bit of a wilted parsley in your fridge, you know like nextovers are great, but what about just those little last bits that you can't find anything to do with? 

Rick Martinez: This is a great question, and it's something that I do almost every week, because if I'm shooting, usually every shoot is like a dish that is completely unrelated to the other one and completely different and so at the end of the week, I have a refrigerator full of all the remnants of all those things that don't go together. And what I normally do is just literally throw everything those couple of last random stalks of celery, that odd carrot, the half of chili poblano and just throw it in a pot of water and make soup. And it's very, very comforting. It's minimal effort. All I have to do is chop whatever's in there, and you can use whatever herbs you have left over. Any wilting greens will just like, blend into the soup, and I don't have to think about it. All I do is put it in water, add salt and let it cook. 

Carla Lalli Music: Ah, there's nothing more satisfying than like finishing those little bits up. 

Rick Martinez: Yeah. 

Carla Lalli Music: I love that. Yeah, I do something similar. Like if I don't have actual things that are worth even putting back in the fridge, I'll keep a kind of bag in the freezer with little aromatics like leek tops or my mushroom scraps or chicken bones, and just kind of keep those building up in a freezer bag. And then eventually I'll make a big pot of stock, which then like, you pay it forward and could make soup from it or cook grains in it. Another thing, I mean, it kind of depends what the leftovers are. And Brittany did refer to next overs, which like, we've all been there, but a lot of times I do this on Monday night. If we've had a big weekend of cooking and there's there's leftover things that are good, but there's aren't quite enough to go around the whole table for our family of four. I will declare that it is picnic dinner and that just means that like the last butt of the steak that didn't get finished, the one chicken thigh that's left over, all of those things like end up on a big board in the middle of the table, bread and butter. I'll try to make a big salad. And then if you put like mustard and mayonnaise out with it, sometimes you can make it into a sandwich like I'll make a salad sandwich and just stick whatever in there. So that's another good way if you live with other people to just call it, call it something else. You know, it's all marketing.

Carla Lalli Music: Borderline Salty, please hold. 

Rick Martinez: Line two, you’re on. 

John: Hi, this is John. My conundrum is when a recipe calls for one shallot, what does that mean? Does that mean one lobe of the shallot? Does that mean both lobes? Is it two tablespoons? Is it four? No one ever says! That's the conundrum. 

Carla Lalli Music: Truly the existential question of our times. 

Rick Martinez: I mean, I relate so much to this question because I remember like when I first started working in food and testing recipes that would just bug the shit out of me. Sometimes they're like the size of my fist. Sometimes they're like two lobes. Sometimes it's just one. Sometimes like the lobes are like splitting apart like it, like a splitting atom. Like, what the hell? 

Carla Lalli Music: What I really, what I really hate in a recipe is when it calls for, like, like, he said, two tablespoons of a chopped shallot. That is so rude. First of all, you have to be chopping the shallot and then measure it and be like, Oh no, I guess I have to chop a little more like, that's irresponsible recipe writing. I don't subscribe. 

Rick Martinez: And then what the hell am I supposed to do with that like quarter bit of like partially chopped shallot? That's dumb. 

Carla Lalli Music: I think this is like PSA. Anything under the skin of that shallot is one shallot. So if you open up the shallot and there's two lobes that are kind of like squished in there together 

Rick Martinez: Right.

Carla Lalli Music: It’s still a shallot.

Rick Martinez: Right. I agree. 

Carla Lalli Music: It's just a shallot that that happened to have two lobes. 

Rick Martinez: And I also think that you you should, you know, as you're cooking this, you should just think about, OK, what is it that you are actually making? So for example, if you were making a salad dressing and you have an unusually large shallot with two giant lobes and the recipe calls for one shallot, like, you know, like, do you really want that giant shallot in your salad dressing like, is that – 

Carla Lalli Music: Right, you're not going to follow blindly.

Rick Martinez: Yeah. So I think, you know, I mean, you could actually then just use maybe a quarter of the shallot and then freeze the rest and put it in your in your little stock bag and then, you know, you can make stock with that at a later date. But yeah, like so just because it is, it is actually. It's not only annoying when you have a recipe that doesn't call for a specific size, but it is also annoying when you go to the grocery store one week and you have gigantic shallots and then the next week, you go and they’re like the size of a garlic clove. 

Carla Lalli Music: Yeah, size matters. 

Rick Martinez: Preach! Carla, the moment has come. We have a live caller. 

Carla Lalli Music:Yay!

Rick Martinez: Hi Gianna. 

Gianna: Hi. 

Carla Lalli Music: This is exciting. 

Gianna: Yes. Oh my gosh. 

Carla Lalli Music:We're so excited to chat with you, Gianna. 

Rick Martinez: Yeah. So nice to meet you. 

Gianna: Nice to meet you, too. I've been watching you guys for like four years, like when I just started getting into cooking. So especially like Rick with like the Mexican cooking.

Rick Martinez: Thank you. 

Gianna: So my question is what scares me about cooking is like, I want to figure out how to cook authentic Mexican food correctly. 

Rick Martinez: Yeah. 

Gianna: Especially like when it like applies to people who don't have access to the authentic ingredients that Mexican food can sometimes require. 

Rick Martinez: I, I think that's a great question, and I wanted to talk about this because it's something that I struggled with also. And what I found being here and traveling around Mexico is there are literally like, you know, hundreds of thousands, if not millions of ways to make every single dish, every single salsa. You know, I, I live in Mazatlan. If I walk around my block and I ask people, I need you to make carnitas. And so five people come over to my house and make carnitas. Every single carnita will be completely different. And to me, that's the beauty of cooking is that people add their own sazón their own creativity and flair and passion to a dish. So, you know, there are certain things that are normally present and certain things like Mexican chillies, which definitely add the signature flavor. But that belief that there is a correct way to make Mexican food or honestly, I think it also applies to other cultures as well. I think that is an American construct. It's something that a lot of times Mexican-Americans feel like we have to do it this one way, because that's the way, that's the only way it can be done. And it's just not, it's not true. 

Gianna: Yeah, I feel like that just arises because like my mom was an immigrant and like, I grew up here and I grew up very much American and like, the cooking kind of skipped a generation because my abuelita did all the cooking. We call her Ita for short. And so my mom didn't want to be forced into those same gender roles that my Ita was. So she never cooks. And I got into it for fun because I wanted to like, I feel like it's a good life skill, but I just feel so much pressure to carry on the Mexican culture for my whole family because none of them cook except for me. 

Rick Martinez: Right, right. I'm curious. Like what? What kind of dishes did she make that you loved and what do you want to be making? 

Gianna: Well, she has her own version of mole, which is just so delicious. That's definitely one that scares me a lot. And also albondigas. And I can say this as a blanket statement, she makes the albondigas in the world, and she has like a recipe book and it's getting passed down to me when she passes. So like, I'm just like trying to get the skills, you know? 

Rick Martinez: I would highly recommend recording her. Certainly voice. But if you can get her to do video as well.

Carla Lalli Music: Well, that's the best. 

Rick Martinez: And I don't want to be. I don't want to turn this conversation down. But my, my mother loved Thanksgiving and I, I was in culinary school at the time and I wasn’t going to be able to go home for Thanksgiving that year. And then I was like, ‘This is dumb. I'm not going to stay in New York by myself for Thanksgiving.’ And so I called my mom and I was like, OK, I got a flight, I'm going to go home. I'm not going to be home until Friday after Thanksgiving, can we move Thanksgiving? She was like, ‘totally fine.’ I get home and I was like, alright, I'm going to record you making Thanksgiving. And she was like, ‘No, no, no, no, no.’ And she hated it, and she was so mad at me and I was like, I'm sorry, I'm not. I'm not asking you, I'm just going to do it. And so I recorded her, you know, making every single dish. I wrote everything that she did down. How do you do this? What did your mom do? All of those things. That was her last Thanksgiving. 

Carla Lalli Music: That is an amazing story. That is, I'm so glad you got to do that. 

Rick Martinez: If I, if I hadn't done that like all of those recipes would have been gone. So my first piece of advice is make the albondigas together with your abuelita. Record it. And at the very least, take really great notes. And I'm going to send you I'm going to send you a recipe for a mole sencillo. A simple mole. So it's a 10-ingredient mole. And to me, the point of that recipe is really to learn the technique which are going to produce those flavors that you would find in Mexico. The ingredients are really secondary, and I think you should choose them based on what you have available, what you can afford and what you actually just like eating. 

Carla Lalli Music: Yeah, I think there's nothing less valid or delicious or welcomed about, you know, doing it your way. You have the most important part of this, which is like you have a love and a desire to cook that is inspired by eating all of this amazing, delicious food. And there's nothing like more pure and perfect than that. You know, you can't really go wrong, like when your desire starts from that place and when you have an amazing model and an inspiration.

Rick Martinez: Carla, that is so incredibly important. And I have to remind myself of that all the time. I think it's really important to take the pressure off of yourself, and I think a lot of times, you know, for me personally, I, I struggle with this, right? Like, am I? Am I being too assimilated? Am I being, am I being respectful to my culture and my heritage? And when you start thinking about your food in terms of those lines, it's, it's very rigid, it's very hard. And for me, it takes the joy out of the food. It takes the joy out of the cooking. 

Gianna: I will definitely cook that recipe as soon as I can. Thank you so much. And thank you Rick for like opening up about your story. 

Rick Martinez: So nice to meet you. 

Gianna: Yeah, thank you.

Rick Martinez: Of course! 

Carla Lalli Music: It was a pleasure. 

Gianna: Thank you so much 

Rick Martinez: And come to Mexico. 

Gianna:I want to so bad. I will one of these days. 

Carla Lalli Music: The time has come, but before we go, it's time for one of our Borderline Salty game shows: Rad fad or bad fad? 

Rick Martinez: This is a game where Carla shows me one of her crazy new internet things and I decide whether, well, honestly, whether I like it or not, whether it's rad or bad. 

Carla Lalli Music: OK, are you ready?

Rick Martinez: Obvs.

Carla Lalli Music: We're going to watch the viral custard toast method. 

Rick Martinez: Oh, I love custard toast. 

Carla Lalli Music: Oh, OK, well, spoiler alert: If you were expecting to see Taiwanese custard toast, you may be a little disappointed. 

TikTok Today, I tried the viral custard toast. You're going to need bread, Greek yogurt, eggs, fruit and maple syrup. Add together all the ingredients on the screen. Optional lemon zest and juice and give it a whisk. Flatten your bread and pour it on in top with your favorite fruit. I did a lemon blueberry toast air fry at 350 for 12 minutes. Hope you enjoy. 

Carla Lalli Music: All right, so let's rewind for a second. This video goes very fast, but let me just rewind quickly and let you know what the viewer is seeing. She just combined the egg, the yogurt, lemon zest and maple syrup, mixes that up in a little bowl, then presses down her bread, which is not the typical thick toast you would expect to see. Adds the mixture. Put some berries on top. Puts everything into the air fryer and then takes it out. And it's beautifully golden brown. 

Rick Martinez: OK, I'm going to start by saying I love custard toast. What this person made, I mean, I guess technically is a custard, but it's the layering thing, honestly, that bothers me. To me, what I love about custard toast is that the custard and the bread are fuzed together. It is like the most perfect french toast like you soak the bread and the custard is inside. 

Carla Lalli Music: Right. 

Rick Martinez: It can barely hold its shape because it's filled with that custard. And then I also have a problem with like the squishing the bread down. 

Carla Lalli Music: To make a little divot 

Rick Martinez: Right, to me, like the beauty of custard toast is the toast shouldn't be a vehicle for the custard. They should be together. 

Carla Lalli Music: Aha aha aha gotcha. 

Rick Martinez: So you're just creating this like flat layer of squished bread and then this yogurt egg thing on top that seems very unpleasant. Where I've had it, like Win Son Bakery has like an amazing custard toast. You brulee sugar over the top, so you get like, almost like a creme brulee vibe going. And it's just, oh.

Carla Lalli Music:  Alright. So has the jury finalized their deliberations in this case? 

Rick Martinez: Yes, we have. Your honor, we find custard toast rad. We find custard toast as depicted by TikTok bad. 

Carla Lalli Music: If you are loving this trend, we love you back, but if you want to make a more classic version of Taiwanese custard toast, there's a link to a great video by Angel Wong's Kitchen in the show notes. 

Rick Martinez: That's it for this week's episode of Borderline Salty, but don't you worry, we'll be back next week. 

Carla Lalli Music: In the meantime, you can find recipes and recommendations from this week's episode in our show notes. Check it out 

Rick Martinez: If you have a question or fear you want us to help you through, you can always leave us a voicemail at 833-433-FOOD. 

Carla Lalli Music: That's 833-433-3663. 

Rick Martinez: Borderline Salty is an original production by Pineapple Street Studios. I'm Rick Martinez 

Carla Lalli Music: And I’m Carla Lalli Music. You can find our social handles in the show notes for this episode. 

Rick Martinez: Natalie Brennnan is our lead producer.

Carla Lalli Music: Janelle Anderson is our producer. 

Rick Martinez: Our Managing Producer is [Ah-gah--RAY-nesh]  [Ah--SHA-grey]

Carla Lalli Music: Our assistant producer is Mari Orozco. 

Rick Martinez: Our Head of Sound & Engineering is Raj Makhija.

Carla Lalli Music: Mixing and Engineering by Davy Sumner and Jason Richards

Rick Martinez: Our assistant engineers are Sharon Bardales and Jade Brooks

Carla Lalli Music: Original music from our very own Raj Makhija!

Rick Martinez: Additional music from Vincent Vega, spring gang, and Glove Box, courtesy of Epidemic Sound.

Carla Lalli Music: Legal services for Pineapple Street are provided by Bianca Grimshaw at Granderson Des Rochers.

Rick Martinez: Our Executive Producers are Max Linsky and Jenna Weiss Berman. 

Special thanks to Justine Daum and Kat Aaron.

Carla Lalli Music: We appreciate Beandra, Brittany, John and Gianna for calling in this week, and thanks to you for listening. Talk to you next week.