BORDERLINE SALTY

On today’s episode of Borderline Salty, hosts Carla Lalli Music and Rick Martinez share helpful techniques for when you’re cooking for one, talk game-changing rice tips, and have an impassioned back and forth about grilled cheese.  

This week’s recipe book: 

• Rick’s Ultimate Beefy, Cheesy Lasagna

• Carla’s Spicy Green Beans and Tofu

• Hetty McKinnon's "To Asia, With Love"

• Carolina Gelen’s Cheesiest Rice Balls

As always, we’d love to hear about your cooking conundrums at 833-433-FOOD (3663). 

Find us on Instagram @borderlinesalty

Find full episode transcripts and more about the podcast on our website borderlinesalty.fm. 

If you can’t get enough of our hosts – we don’t blame you! Check out Carla's cookbooks here and find links to her YouTube channel, Patreon, and Instagram at www.carlalallimusic.com. 

You can pre-order Rick’s upcoming cookbook here, watch the companion Mi Cocina video series here, and find all of his socials at www.rick-martinez.com

EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION

Rick Martinez: Hi, I'm Rick Martinez, I'm a cookbook author, a yogurt connoisseur and a lover of caftans on the beach, and I am currently living in beautiful, sunny Mazatlan, Mexico. 

Carla Lalli Music: And I'm Carla Lalli Music. I am a cookbook author, professionally trained chef and self-proclaimed bean queen of Brooklyn. 

Rick Martinez: And this is Borderline Salty. The show where we take your calls, boost your confidence and make you a better, smarter and happier cook. 

Carla Lalli Music: Today will weigh in on cooking for one techniques, leftover rice options and a little fight about grilled cheese. 

Rick Martinez: There is this moment in a Queer Eye episode where Antony says mac and cheese is something that can actually be so personal, and I completely agree, Antony. But for me, there's something about a perfectly delicious grilled cheese sandwich that just fills my soul with happiness. 

Carla Lalli Music: But before we get into all of that dairy-based joy, Rick, tell me something good. 

Rick Martinez: Oh my God. OK, so, so many good things happened this week, but something happened today about eight minutes before we started recording that completely trumped everything. 

Carla Lalli Music: Okay. Ah! Oh, my God, it's beautiful. 

Rick Martinez: Mi Cocina is here! 

Carla Lalli Music: Rick just held up a copy of his beautiful book.

Rick Martinez: So I have been working on this book for, I don't know, it seems like decades, again, but I've only ever seen it in PDF, and today I actually got the first physical copy of this book. 

Carla Lalli Music: Ah, did you cry? 

Rick Martinez: I'm going to cry now. I can't even describe the feeling like it's finally in front of me. 

Carla Lalli Music: It's it's so amazing. 

Rick Martinez: It's like the cover is like more brilliant and vibrant than I ever could have imagined. And I am. I'm so insanely happy right now, so. 

Carla Lalli Music: I am so proud of you and I cannot wait to get my hands on a copy. I think [unclear] preordered three, so I don't know who, which one's gonna get here first. 

Rick Martinez: I'm so excited. 

Carla Lalli Music: So proud of you. Congrats. 

Rick Martinez: Thank you. And what is good with you? 

Carla Lalli Music: Well, pales in comparison, but I have treated myself once again to a very special food treat. This is the, I guess, the second year in a row that we haven't been able to take our favorite family vacation, which in the past like five years we've gone to Costa Rica. I think it was my first fresh passionfruit that I ever had was in Costa Rica, and it's, I think it's the most delicious flavor to me. Like, I love them so much and I was so sad to leave. So since we haven't been able to go away, I bought a flat of passionfruit and it just got here the other day. And I've just I just stand at the kitchen counter, open up these beautiful, tiny, little gorgeous purple fruits and they're like that bright orange inside, and they're so sweet and tart and sour and fresh. And I'm just sure they have like 7000 milligrams of vitamin C and each of them and just go through six, seven at a time. 

Rick Martinez: Ugh, I wish I was there. 

Carla Lalli Music: No, you don't. 

Rick Martinez: OK, yeah, I don't, really. It's the thought that counts. 

Carla Lalli Music: Let's dive into these questions. 

Caller 1: Hey, Rick. Mickey Gomez, went to highschool with you. So excited about your podcast and I've been watching your videos. My pronouns are she and her. My wife and I, we eat out a lot. However, we're starting to cook more at home. We have two children. My son absolutely loves chicken fried rice. Here's the problem: I can never get my jasmine rice to be sticky enough or to be as delicious as, let's say, chicken fried rice from a Chinese restaurant. So help! What do I do? 

Rick Martinez: Wow. Blast from the past. Mickey so good to hear your voice. It has been many years. I'm not saying the number because no one needs to know that. Mickey and I went to David Crockett High School. Yes, that is a real place. 

Carla Lalli Music: Love that. 

Rick Martinez: Davy Davy Crockett, King of the Wild Frontier. Go Cougars. Fight, fight, fight. Go Cougars, win tonight. So great question. Glad you're making fried rice! So I have to admit I'm a little bit confused by the word sticky because I don't know what that means, exactly. Because when I think of sticky, I think of that being slightly bad. 

Carla Lalli Music: Yeah, same. 

Rick Martinez: You know, gummy. If it's sticking before you fry it, you're going to get. Probably not the best result. You're going to get more clumpy.

Carla Lalli Music: Right. 

Rick Martinez: So what I normally do when I make fried rice is I will make my rice, and then as soon as it's ready, I basically take two forks and I pull it apart. So that kind of opens up the grains and then I spread it out onto a sheet tray lined with parchment paper. 

Carla Lalli Music: Yeah. And then just let it sit out on the counter and completely cool. And that can be out there for a few hours, and it's totally fine. The thing is, you want to lose that extra moisture and then you take that and fry it in either a wok or a large skillet or a large nonstick skillet. But the trick is you need to use a decent amount of oil. So normally, if I'm cooking four cups of cooked rice, I'm going to use about a half a cup of oil. You know, you just go little batches at a time, you fry off whatever you're going to fry off. And then if you put the rice down in the hot skillet with the oil and then just kind of press it down so that it's making good contact with the surface of your pan and let that fry undisturbed for about a minute or two until it gets a little bit crispy, maybe it takes on a little bit of color and then flip. 

Carla Lalli Music: And then like and mix it, stir it, mix it, break it up again and then press it down again. 

Rick Martinez: Yeah, exactly. And so then you'll get the rice that you'll be able to eat with chopsticks. 

Carla Lalli Music: Ah, ah, I love rice. I've like really thought a lot about rice, and if it were between race and pasta -- I've played this game -- like people play the like pancakes or waffles or like Coke or Sprite or whatever. For me, it's like rice or pasta and like, it is 100 percent rice. Like, I'm going to the end of days with rice.

Rick Martinez: Pasta with a good sauce. I mean, come on. 

Carla Lalli Music: Sure. Sure, right? Sure. But rice? 

Rick Martinez: Oh damn it. 

Carla Lalli Music: I know. I know. I know. I know. It's tough. You don't have to tell. You don't have to decide right now. It's just something when you can't fall asleep at night, just ruminate. Ruminate on rice. Next, caller, please. 

Caller 2: Hi Rick and Carla, my name is Jenna. My family's trying to eat less meat, so we're incorporating more meat alternatives like tofu. But since I've been cooking tofu, which is a very long time, I can never, never, never get it crispy. And I tried every method dredging and cornstarch, cooking it on the stove. Baking it. Anything you can think of. I just can't get like a fully crispy piece of tofu that you get when you eat out. So any assistance here would be much, much appreciated. 

Carla Lalli Music: I mean, when she's eating out, they're probably very likely, often deep frying. 

Rick Martinez: Right.

Carla Lalli Music: Because the cornstarch method, it's foolproof. So starting with firm or extra firm tofu, cutting it into one or one and a half inch pieces and then really thoroughly coating it in cornstarch, but then you have to have enough fat in the pan, right? Because if you don't have fat in the pan, it's not going to conduct the heat, it's not going to give you the crust and then leaving it alone until it's brown before you turn it. But I really do find that works really well. 

Rick Martinez: No, completely. And I also wonder if she's not letting it dry. Or else you're just going to steam it out. 

Carla Lalli Music: I used to be really die hard on the pressing method until I read to Asia with love by Hetty McKinnon, and she's all about the cornstarch method. So I kind of changed gears. 

Rick Martinez: OK, wait, so you don't press your tofu?  

Carla Lalli Music: She says you don't have to press. And so I trust Hetty, and so I did that and I got great results. 

Rick Martinez: Oh my God, why? Why am I still pressing? Damn it. 

Carla Lalli Music: I know. Yeah. I mean, I don't think pressing is bad. I just think like, you could save yourself the time if you want to just go straight into the cornstarch and into the pan. 

Rick Martinez: Line two, you're on. 

Caller 3: Hi, this is Katie calling. I have a question for you about grilled cheese sandwiches. I know this is a very basic thing to do, but I've always had a hard time getting the perfect, crunchy but not burnt grilled cheese and such a quick, easy go-to. I tend to not have this problem with other things that I make. It should be such an easy one. So would love your advice on how to make the perfect grilled cheese sandwich. 

Rick Martinez: OK, well, firstly, it's not quick. 

Carla Lalli Music: Yeah, it's not quick or easy. Just because it's a basic food doesn't mean it's a basic technique. There's a lot that needs to happen. 

Rick Martinez: There's a lot of love that goes in it, but it will pay you back love for all eternity once you have mastered this and I have a very particular method, and to me, it is like gospel doctrine, according to Rick, so. 

Carla Lalli Music: Tell me mayonnaise is involved, please. 

Rick Martinez: Absolutely not. 1000 percent no. 

Carla Lalli Music: What? I'm shocked. 

Rick Martinez: Butter, all the way. In fact, not only butter, but I will go one step further and I never, ever use this ingredient. I never, ever buy it. I never, ever called for. But it's a one time that I will use it: Salted butter. 

Carla Lalli Music: Rick, is this you? It sounds like you. 

Rick Martinez: This is me. This is what I do. Just sliced American or deli sliced American cheese. That's sort of my my go-to cheese. 

Carla Lalli Music: OK, tell me why. 

Rick Martinez: It is a processed cheese that melts very, very evenly and smoothly. And I like the texture. I like it to be super shatteringly crispy on the outside and then gooey and liquidy on the inside. Just that, it's like it's the butter and the and the golden crunch of the starch with a little bit of salt. So I put the butter in the pan. And the reason why I put it in the pan and not the bread is because as it melts, you can move the sandwich around, and the butter will push up against the edge of the crust. And so now not only is the surface of the bread crunchy and buttery, but now the sides of the crust are crunchy and buttery. That is equally delicious, and it takes a while, you know, your your butter melts. You're going to stand there like maybe five seven minutes, and that gives the crust enough time to set, it removes all the moisture from the bottom of the bread. It also starts to melt your cheese. Then you lift it up. 

Carla Lalli Music: OK, hold on. Hold on. 

Rick Martinez: Hold on. Yeah. Yes. OK, here we go. Yeah. 

Carla Lalli Music: So the first side is down. It's it hasn't been flipped yet. Are you pressing at all? 

Rick Martinez: No, no, no. 

Carla Lalli Music: No pressing? 

Rick Martinez: No pressing at all. 

Carla Lalli Music: Everything you're doing is opposite of what I do. So just keep going. 

Rick Martinez:  And then I get the spatula and they lift up a corner to see what color we're at. Add another tablespoon or two of butter. Let that melt. Flip it over, and then you do the same thing on the other side. It's just a slow toast. I mean, that's that's all it is. You're taking out, you're removing the moisture from the bread so that you can get a really ridiculously crispy golden surface. So I need to know what you do. 

Carla Lalli Music: First of all, it definitely is an American cheese, because I just we just never had the only time I really buy American cheeses for burgers. I, I I just don't even have a standard bread that I would use. Like, I guess in my ideal world, it would be the Pullman loaf from Bien Cuit in Brooklyn, which is a Pullman style. So it's that perfect square. And I am putting a little bit of mustard on the inside because mustard and cheese are so great together.

Rick Martinez: Yeah, delicious. 

Carla Lalli Music: And then the cheese is going to be grated. And like, I would love a blend of, you know, sharp cheddar and pepper jack. Maybe. And then you're piling up the cheese in the middle of the bread and then you put your top piece on and I'm going to smear that butter wall to wall on that top piece. But I also I'm a presser, Rick. So when it goes down butter side or mayo side down, I'm going to press it down with a spatula because I want cheese to come out the sides and I want the cheese to come out the sides and hit the skillet and freako. But you know, this is a personal this is as personal as a pan pizza. I mean, it is a personal choice. Borderline Salty, please hold. 

Caller 4: Hey, there my name is Maddie. One kind of embarrassing question I have is that whenever there is a recipe that says it's going to take a certain amount of time like recipes [unclear] even for about an hour, it takes me twice that. And this happens over and over and over again, and it keeps me from trying new recipes. Bottom line, I have trouble budgeting my time in the kitchen and because it happened with basically every recipe, I assume it's a me problem. And if you can help me with that, that would be swell! 

Carla Lalli Music: This is not a new problem at all. I don't put time estimates on any of my recipes for total time because it's never right, like the speed at which I might do a recipe is going to be completely different from the speed of my neighbor. It depends on your equipment. It depends on your oven. It depends on so many variables. I think one of the reasons that recipes take people a long time is because they think they have to do all of the ingredient prep before they start cooking. And the reason they think that is because a lot of recipes are written like that, like in the ingredient list, it's going to say one onion chopped, you know, two potatoes cut into two inch pieces. A lot of people will lay all of that out because we've, as professional cooks, been hammering this thing about mise en place into people's minds for years. The truth is, you don't need to set up mise en place unless you're about to do a stir fry or another really quick cooking method or a baking recipe where you really do need all of your ingredients measured out ahead of time before you start. Most recipes are going to give you lots of different moments of inactive and active time where you can squeeze in a little bit of busy work. And if you watch a professional cook in a restaurant, they start with the thing that takes the longest. And while that thing is going, they use that stretch of time to do either vegetable prep or whisking together a vinaigrette or, you know, measuring out other ingredients. But time and time management are really important, and learning how to reduce the total amount of time that you spend working on a recipe was really front of mind when I was working on "That sounds so good." That book is divided between Monday through Thursday and Friday and the weekend, and my whole thinking around that was that you have very different amounts of time to devote to recipes, whether or not it's like a lazy Saturday or you just got home from work or commuting or caretaking or whatever you were doing on a Wednesday evening. The weekends are for braises and slow roasts and stews and, you know, long cooked tomato sauces. Delicious soups that get more delicious the longer they simmer for. Weeknights is for quick stuff. Shellfish, shrimp, you know, chicken cutlets, chicken thighs, salads that are totally loaded with protein and veg and crunchy things and nuts and seeds that you just throw together. And they're still super satisfying and sustaining. So, you know, just remember where you're at. You're not making Ragu Bolognese on Monday night. 

Caller 5: Hey, guys, my name is Asa. I live on my own and I can't seem to figure out how to cook for one reasonably. I'm always turning my very small kitchen into this huge experiment, and I can't seem to make a simple meal. What I'm looking for some suggestions on how to take my desire to cook and maybe scale it down for size. Thanks so much. 

Rick Martinez: OK, this is all you.

Carla Lalli Music: Alright, Rick. No, you live alone. This is all you. 

Rick Martinez: I am genetically, I am genetically incapable of cooking for for one. Like, I'm convinced. Like, first of all, I don't actually think that it's wise. Like why I had this argument with my friend Eric Kim. And he's like, Oh, I came up with this great idea to make a lasagna that fits in a loaf pan. I was like, That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my entire life. If I'm going to go to the bother of making a lasagna, that motherfucker is going to be a 13 by nine deep dish. I'm going to be eating my face off for a week and I'm going to freeze whatever's left over, which probably not very much because I probably will eat half of it in one sitting and I'm going to be fine with that. Like, where, where is the problem? Where, I tell you. 

Carla Lalli Music:I think what some people complain about is like, Sure, I can make this recipe for four, I can make it for six. But then I have to eat the same food for like meal after meal after meal, and I get bored, right? And and that's I think that's a valid because I'm the same way. This is why I don't meal plan, because if I tried to think about what I would want to eat in four days, I'm going to be wrong when the four days rolled around and I'm not going to want what I thought I wanted. So it's clear that Asa likes to cook. What I would say is instead of doing big, composed meals like have fun doing components for meals. So start thinking about cooking ingredients that can become a meal instead of just big batch cooking. So like make enough grains for four or six servings. And then if you're making beans, don't make two ounces of beans for one meal. Cook half a pound of beans, and you don't necessarily have to combine those things until you want to. And then you have cook beans you can take in any flavor direction. You've got cooked grains you can take in any flavor direction. You could have some braised greens that are simply flavored. Then you can take those in a different direction. So like just bank your building blocks. 

Rick Martinez: I agree. Building blocks is a really smart way to think through batch cooking without getting sick of meals. But I'm a freezer guy. End of story.  

Carla Lalli Music: Right. OK, so bottom line, continue cooking for four or six or eight and get a chest freezer. 

Rick Martinez: 100 percent. To me, it's a surprise, right? Because I have I will eventually forget all the shit that I put it in the freezer. And if one day I am poking around and I'm hungry and I want something to eat and I see like this gift that I left myself like a half of a lasagna like that is, that is going to make my day. Because chances are, if I'm poking around a freezer looking for food, I'm like, I've not had a good day. Like, I'm tired and I'm hungry. And if I see lasagna, I'm going to be super happy. You know, write little cute cards and say, Because I love you, Rick. 

Carla Lalli Music: Can you make some of those and just send them to me so I can put them on my own stuff that I put in the refridge? Aw, this one's from Rick. 

Rick Martinez: I love you, Carla. Happy Monday, Carla. 

Carla Lalli Music: Before we head out, it's time for one of our favorite Borderline Salty segments: Read Fad or Bad Fad. All right, Rick, are you ready for this one? 

Rick Martinez: God, what do you have in store for me today? 

Carla Lalli Music: What I'm about to play for you is a tick tock where our mutual friend Carolina takes her leftover rice, throws it in a blender with some water, then forms that mixture into little balls. Then she sautees those cute little rice balls not one, but two different ways. 

Voice: I had a ton of leftover rice, so let's make something with it. Add some rice to a blender and some water. Now we blend. You're looking for a mashed potato consistency, and we're going to cook this on a nonstick pan until it turns into a paste --

Rick Martinez: -- woah.

Voice: Shape them into little spheres and sear them in butter. The fun part is they can be sweet, they can be savory. These ones are some brown sugar ones. We have some soy garlic ones. Cheers. 

Rick Martinez: I really like this. Actually. 

Carla Lalli Music: Don't those look good? 

Rick Martinez: I've never blended rice before. Why have I never thought of this? Like, have you? Have you ever done that? 

Carla Lalli Music: No, essentially. So she's taking leftover rice and blending it with water, which is, I guess, I never have leftover rice like hanging out long enough to need to do this. But they really remind me of glutinous rice balls like Chinese glutinous rice balls, which is one of my favorite textures like the sesame ones, but they're also kind of like Korean Tteokbokki but those are made with rice flour, not cooked rice that you've blended with water to make a thick little batter. 

Rick Martinez: But also like, I love that she also said that you could go sweet or savory. 

Carla Lalli Music: Right.

Rick Martinez: Like, playing up like a caramelized rice pudding ball kind of sitch sounds pretty amazing. 

Carla Lalli Music: I know I find the shape really pleasing. I'm I'm loving this like quick saute situation. And then also, it's just a great leftover hack. 

Rick Martinez: I actually don't even think that I can wait until I have leftover rice. I think I may just go make some rice right now. Split it in half, do one half savory, one half sweet. This is a rad fad. 

Carla Lalli Music: Not that we needed it, but just more proof that it is rice all day, every day till the end of days. 

Rick Martinez: That's it for this week's episode of Borderline Salty, but don't you worry, we'll be back next week. 

Carla Lalli Music: In the meantime, you can find recipes and recommendations from this week's episode in our show notes. Check it out.

Rick Martinez: If you have a question or a fear, you want us to help you through, you can always leave us a voicemail at 833-433-FOOD. 

Carla Lalli Music: That's eight three three four three three three six six three. 

Rick Martinez: Borderline Salty is an original production by Pineapple Street Studios. I'm Rick Martinez 

Carla Lalli Music: And I’m Carla Lalli Music. You can find our social handles in the show notes for this episode. 

Rick Martinez: Natalie Brennan is our lead producer.

Carla Lalli Music: Janelle Anderson is our producer. 

Rick Martinez: Our Managing Producer is Agerenesh Ashagre.

Carla Lalli Music: Our assistant producer is Mari Orozco. 

Rick Martinez: Our Head of Sound & Engineering is Raj Makhija.

Carla Lalli Music: Mixing and Engineering by Davy Sumner and Jason Richards.

Rick Martinez: Our assistant engineers are Sharon Bardales and Jade Brooks.

Carla Lalli Music: Original music from our very own Raj Makhija!

Rick Martinez: Additional music from Vincent Vega, spring gang, and Glove Box, courtesy of Epidemic Sound.

Carla Lalli Music: Legal services for Pineapple Street are provided by Bianca Grimshaw at Granderson Des Rochers.

Rick Martinez: Our executive producers are Max Linsky and Jenna Weiss-Berman. 

Carla Lalli Music: We appreciate Mickey, Jenna, Katie, Maddie and Asa for calling in this week. And thanks to you for listening. Talk to you next week. 

Rick Martinez: Nos vemos! 

Carla Lalli Music: Ciao for now. 

Rick Martinez: Bye.