BORDERLINE SALTY

On today’s episode of Borderline Salty, our hosts Carla Lalli Music and Rick Martinez are together in NYC! 

They catch up IRL about their latest dining experiences and give their very strong opinions about beans. They also weigh in on how much salt is too much salt (spoiler: the limit does not exist!). 

Want to check out the restaurants we mentioned this week? Shout out to Bonnie's!

This week’s recipe book:

As always, we’d love to hear about your cooking conundrums at 833-433-FOOD (3663). 

Find us on Instagram @borderlinesalty

Find full episode transcripts and more about the podcast on our website borderlinesalty.fm. 

If you can’t get enough of our hosts – we don’t blame you! Subscribe to Carla's newsletters here and find links to her Instagram and YouTube channel at www.carlalallimusic.com. 

You can order Rick’s cookbook “Mi Cocina: Recipes and Rapture from My Kitchen in Mexico  here, watch the companion Mi Cocina video series here, and find all of his socials at www.rick-martinez.com

EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION

Rick Martinez: Hi, I'm Rick Martinez, I am a cookbook author and lover of delicious, fine French pastry, and I have to say they love me too. 

Carla Lalli Music: And I'm Carla Lalli Music. I'm also a cookbook author, video host, and my favorite flavor of ice cream is ... 

Rick Martinez: Drum roll 

Carla Lalli Music: Coffee mocha chip. 

Rick Martinez: Wow, yum! And this is borderline salty. The show where we take your calls, boost your confidence and make you a better, smarter and happier cook. 

Carla Lalli Music: Today, we'll give our very strong opinions about bean soaking methods and weigh in on how much salt is too much salt. 

Rick Martinez: I mean, this is Borderline Salty, after all. 

Carla Lalli Music: But before we get into all that, Rick? Tell me something good. 

Rick Martinez: Well, I have something great. I am in New York City and you are three feet away from me, which is the first time this has happened in a long, long, long time. It is great to be back in New York, and one of the things that I have missed so much is eating amazing food in this city. So I've been eating my face off, which I mean, that's what you do. But one of the things that struck me is eating at so many amazing new restaurants back to back, I have a new appreciation for front of the house and service and what they actually do to the experience. 

Carla Lalli Music: Yeah. 

Rick Martinez: I mean, without a doubt, every place that I've been has had exceptional service. But one place in particular has a very different style, and it impacts the customer and their relationship with other diners. And so I ate at Bonnie's a few days ago. And all of the stuff the GM, the bartender, the servers were welcoming us into their home for a house party. You know, and it had the effect of opening up the diners to talking to people around them as if they were all guests at the same party. And so the vibe was very much social and there was a lot of interaction between tables and you could walk to different tables and talk to different people. And it was just so welcoming and so comforting. And it just, I mean, that, coupled with the incredible food, just made me want to stay there. And it's one of the first times I think that I will want to return to a restaurant not only for the food, but because of the front of the house staff and not even the service. Just like to see these people again, that now I feel like are my friends. 

Carla Lalli Music: That is so incredible. That is like such a huge reason why we love to eat out like you are in a room with people having fun, enjoying food. And I've always said, if you, you could take me to a restaurant where the food is incredible. But the services like cold and formal and standoffish, and I'm never going to want to go back. You could take me to a restaurant where the food is like, actually OK, but the service is amazing and I'm yours forever. 

Rick Martinez: Yeah, 100 percent. So Carla, you tell me something great. 

Carla Lalli Music: Well, this weekend we had a very special family birthday celebration. My dad turned 80, my sister, their birthdays are 10 days apart, so we always celebrate together. And my sister is pregnant, so it's like a very exciting time. He's got this big milestone. The family is growing and going back a few years, my dad is a cancer survivor. He does not have cancer anymore, but there was a time when he was really sick and we like didn't know, you know, how many more of these birthday celebrations we had. And there was one time in particular where he was in the hospital and I came to visit him and he, like 100 percent, waited for my mom to leave the room and called me in. And he was like, Carla, we have to drink the wine. And I was like, I know! We have to drink the wine because he loves wine. He loves to collect wine and not in like a super precious way, but in a way of like this is to be enjoyed, you know? And it just took on like a new urgency. So ever since then, we've been really good about drinking the wine. And this weekend was just because it was also a special occasion, he broke out some bottles that he was very excited about, and it was just so fun and a celebration and just a reminder of like, you're not waiting for that good time, like you're having that good time, that good time is right now. Drink the wine. 

Rick Martinez: Drink the wine. Enjoy each other's company. 

Carla Lalli Music: Exactly. 

Rick Martinez: Carla, yes. Do you know what time it is? 

Carla Lalli Music: Is it time for caller questions? 

Caller 1: Hi, Rick and Carla, this is so exciting. This is Alexandra, and I'm excited to ask you this question because I love making beans. I always soak them before I cook them. My grandfather said, always use the soaking liquid. Otherwise say throw it out. Make them less gassy. That part one. My other question for you is I was told by [unclear] is not to add any acid until later in the cooking to make the beans cook better and softer and not be as hard. So I'm just wondering if you're cooking in a pressure cooker or even in a pot on the stove, what is the best order of operations to make the creamy a most delicious and flavorful beans? Thanks! 

Carla Lalli Music: God, I love beans. 

Rick Martinez: Same.

Carla Lalli Music: I love them so much. 

Rick Martinez: Same.

Carla Lalli Music: I could eat beans every day. 

Rick Martinez: Anytime. OK, so I already know that this is a, there's not really a controversial topic, but we definitely have opposing viewpoints on this. 

Carla Lalli Music: Yes, and it's OK. There's more than one way to skin a cat here. So the first part is like to soak or not to soak. And I'm on the record. I'm a super soaker. Love to soak.

Rick Martinez: I don't even know what that word means. OK, here's the thing about smoking. You know, it's like a sponge, right? So if you take a dry sponge and you drop it into a glass of water, it is going to absorb all the water and be filled with water. So if you had a desire to take a bite out of the sponge? Guess what you would taste? Water! 

Carla Lalli Music: I don't agree, they're being used to be filled with whatever. Before it got dried, it was filled with something and that something was liquid. So are you telling me that a fresh cranberry bean is? 

Rick Martinez: I'm telling you that if you drop the the dry sponge into a glass of delicious rich chicken broth, guess what it would taste like? Delicious, rich chicken broth. 

Carla Lalli Music: OK, is this why you don't soak or is it deeper than that? 

Rick Martinez:  No, I mean, I grew up in a household that we didn't know that smoking was even an option, right? The way that you made beans is you put them in a pot and it took three hours or more. That's just the way that it all worked. And like my father has his mother's bean pot. This pot is probably 100 years old, and he still uses it, you know, it's just like making a turkey at Thanksgiving, right? You know how long it's going to take. You know it's going to occupy the oven, so you just work around that knowledge. And I've I've I've tried soaking methods. I've cross tested recipes that call for soaked beans, it is just going to be watery. 

Carla Lalli Music: At this point. Alexandra's question might have been, Rick, could you please explain to Carla why she should stop soaking her beans? Because we would like to hear that. So I'm hearing it and I'm open to it. But now, whatever we did, we now have beans that we're going to put in the pot. I use my soaking liquid. I think you would agree is throwing away the soak liquid is tomfoolery.

Rick Martinez: Foolish. 

Carla Lalli Music: foolish. If you're someone who gets a little gassy from beans, then it's not about the soaking liquid. 

Rick Martinez:  Right. You're going to get gassy regardless. I mean, the reality is, or at least my reality, my body. It's like if a bean makes me gassy, it doesn't matter what I put in it or cook it in or soak it or whatever. I'm going to continue to be gassy. 

Carla Lalli Music: Yeah. And I just know I cook Pasta e fagioli every Sunday night. And for me, it's something. And for other people in the household, it's it's not. And that's OK. Sunday night. That's what Sunday night is. That's what it is. It's fine. I don't regret it. And it's normal and natural. So just whatever soak or don't soak, it's up to you. You might save a little bit of time. But as far as making a delicious, creamy been in my advanced years, like the amount of salt and fat that you can add to the cooking liquid, it kind of knows no limit. Beans can take a lot of salt, and they can take a lot of fat and they just get better and better and better. So salt the hell out of it. If you don't have stock, that's totally fine. You know, I like that thyme and rosemary and bay leaves and a lot of salt and a lot of olive oil. Or if I have, you know, rendered fat sitting around, you know which I usually do, I'll throw pork fat in there, chicken fat, beef fat. I mean, it's just all fat and salt. 

Rick Martinez: Totally agree with that. And I also like you did a recipe with charred lemon. And that was like super delicious. 

Carla Lalli Music: Yeah. So that's Patch Troffer's recipe. Lemon cut in half and like charred pretty hard and added to the water. And that gets us into the acidity part of this question. I think we both subscribe to the belief that acidity will slow down the tenderizing of the being and could like make them tough longer, so if I'm going to add something acidic like that, whether it's tomato or lemon, I wait usually until the beans starting to become tender. So like maybe an hour, hour and a half into cooking, that's when I would add something acidic. But acidity and beans definitely go together. And it is like a lovely thing to add to beans, especially at the very end of cooking like taste so good. You just want to remember the formula. Low and slow. 

Rick Martinez: Lots of fat. Lots of salt. 

Carla Lalli Music: Soak.

Rick Martinez: Whatever. 

Caller 2:  Hi, my name is Holly Prince and my question is about salt. You know, for so long I've been told like, don't add salt, i's bad for your heart. When I watch your cooking videos, Carla, I see you using a lot of salt. 

Carla Lalli Music: Salt the hell out of it and a lot of salt, like the amount of salt that you can add. It kind of knows no limit. 

Caller 2: And so I'm wondering, what can you say about the use of salt and how it impacts us? Because it always I find it kind of alarming, although everything always tastes really good. Thanks. 

Carla Lalli Music: Ugh.

Rick Martinez: Well, we didn't name it Borderline Salty for nothing. 

Carla Lalli Music: If it's not salted, it's not good. This is like, I think, the number one reason why home cooks are like, I don't know, I made it, I followed the recipe and it just like, it was kind of flat. You are not salting your food enough. And I feel for Holly because they're thinking about salt, the tie between salt and hypertension, or high blood pressure has been like beaten into our brains because that was the common thinking based on like studies done a really long time ago. And the fact is like unless your doctor told you to cut back on salt, just like let it rain.

Rick Martinez: And you know, like science is always changing, right? So studies that that were conducted 50 years ago say a very different thing. I mean, it's sort of like planets like Pluto a planet or not, right? Like every when we grew up, it was a planet. Now it's not. Sometimes it is. And then there's like sub planets and this, I mean, whatever. 

Carla Lalli Music: The fact of the matter is, is like, it is not necessarily true that salt gives you high blood pressure. If you have high blood pressure, you might be on a special diet that is fine. But you know, I think that it is alarming when people see me salting pasta, water or, you know, doing what we call the four finger pinch of kosher salt from the dish and really just like letting it go. That's because over time I have learned like how much salt is needed to season my food, and it varies. Like last night I was making a stir fry that I was going to finish with soy sauce and black vinegar at the end. So throughout the phases of cooking the vegetables first, I seasoned them really lightly because I knew that at the end I was going to add soy. But if I'm making like a pot of beans or mashed potatoes or eggs like that food needs salt. 

Rick Martinez: Yeah, or you're just going to be really sad. And you know, and here's the other thing. So I I also am a firm believer that health is very personal, and you and I are almost exactly the same age, we're a couple of months apart and we have been eating salt and butter and and also lots of vegetables, lots of fiber, but we are incredibly healthy. We look great for our age. We have fabulous skin. 

Carla Lalli Music: We look amazing, 

Rick Martinez: We look amazing. And you know, and to me, my my view on health is I feel very comfortable. I know how my body works and having a good dialogue with your physician. Yeah, and making sure that there are no problems on the horizon that are coming up. And I, you know, like I have a history of hypertension and heart disease in my family, and I have been asking my doctor for decades like, OK, when is it coming? When is it coming? And he's like, Look, if if it hasn't come by now, do you just keep doing what you're doing and you're going to be fine, at least for the foreseeable future? So, you know, that's how I'm living my life. 

Carla Lalli Music: Yeah. Have you ever had pasta that you forgot to salt the pasta water? 

Rick Martinez:  I mean, I've had under seasoned pasta. 

Carla Lalli Music: I have, I have a wholesale forgotten and it is just it's devastating. 

Rick Martinez: How do you recover from that? Do you have to go to therapy? 

Carla Lalli Music: You literally have to like, I mean, anyway, but yes.

Caller 4: Hi Rick and Carla my name is Margarita. The ingredient that freaks me out is tilapia. I don't know how to cook it so it doesn't taste fishy. Please help me out because it's very inexpensive and I'm a pescatarian and I need help. Ayuda, por favor. 

Rick Martinez: I'm not a big fan of strong fishy flavors, either, so I actually completely I know exactly what you're talking about. I will also say that I didn't eat a lot of fish until I moved to Mazatlan, and I realized that the reason a lot of times that fish has that strong flavor is because it's just not that fresh, and you know, now that I'm living by the coast, it's been very eye opening fish that I didn't think that I liked. All of a sudden, I'm like, Oh my god, now I understand why people get so obsessed about fish. It's so delicious. 

Carla Lalli Music: I think the problem in Margarita is having is not tilapia problem. I think it's just like a fresh, freshness of fish problem because tilapia in and of itself is actually not a very strong flavored fish and is sort of mild. And I think that's why it became such a popular farmed fish in the U.S. because it kind of doesn't have a ton of flavor. So if she's detecting a strong fishy flavor from her tilapia, that's a market issue. 

Rick Martinez:  Totally agree with that. 

Carla Lalli Music: I think there's something else in Margarita's question, which is, she said, that she likes to use it or buys it often because it's inexpensive. And there's a clue there, because the reason that tilapia is so inexpensive is because it's a really easy to raise in a farmed situation. So this tilapia is raised in big pens with, you know, crowded conditions. Eating soy pellets like this is a fish who's not lived its best life. So when the price is too good to be true, it's like it's because it is too good to be true. It's it's actually not good. So, you know, sometimes a low price is going to be the first indication that maybe the quality isn't there.

Rick Martinez: Right. And you know, not to say that you have to buy the most expensive fish. But you know, I think it is very true in this case, not only fish, but like other proteins, like if it's, you know, a giant bag of chicken parts or a giant piece of pork and it's five to $10. You know, there's a there's a reason. 

Carla Lalli Music: There's a reason, exactly. 

Rick Martinez: Exactly. And so, you know, it's one of those things where I feel like if you have $10 to spend, I would rather spend that $10 on a smaller piece of higher quality protein that is going to have good flavor and then just build your meal around that and bolster up like the side dishes, the starches, the vegetables and enjoy that smaller piece of very good quality fish. 

Carla Lalli Music: So before we go, it's time for one of our favorite Borderline Salty segments: Rad Fad or Bad Fad? This is the pretty viral grated egg phenomenon that is literally sweeping the Tik Tok nation. So for our listeners at home who are not watching along with us, what just happened in this quick little video is we started with an olive oil toasted, crusty piece of bread onto which a schmear of mayonnaise happens. There's the most perfect avocado I've ever seen in my life, being cut into the thinnest little slices and then fanned over the crispy bread. Then we have paper thin slices of red onion. And then there's a hard boiled egg that gets shelled, and with a regular cheese grater, just shaving this hard boiled egg over the top. So it's like fluffy and you see the whites and the yolks, and then the whole thing gets topped with a little more salt and peps, another drizzle of olive oil cheese. There's cheese of some kind, and then the knife comes through and cuts it in half and you just see it go through the fluffy top and then crunch through that toasted bread on the bottom. I got to say it looks really good. 

Rick Martinez: You're leading the witness. 

Carla Lalli Music: Overruled. Objection sustained. 

Rick Martinez: But no, I totally agree. Kudos to them for getting that absolutely perfect golden brown crust on that bread. The crunch was beautiful. Everything about it, I think, is just yummy. Like I would, I would 100 percent. I would pay money to eat that, that toast. 

Carla Lalli Music: Yeah, I think it's funny how it's become this like new thing, the idea of the grated egg. But the first time I saw it, all I could think about was like your very formal old school caviar service where you would have finely grated egg white and finely grated egg yolk, but separate so you could garnish each of your perfect little, you know, blini and your caviar. But now it's like for every man. Yeah.  

Rick Martinez: Yeah, I remember. I mean, we in culinary school, we had to pass hard boiled eggs through a Tammy. 

Carla Lalli Music: Exactly. 

Rick Martinez: And we would use that to make the French deviled egg, which is an [unclear] and even in restaurants, we would do that for our egg salad. We would use the large holes of a giant grater and just push the eggs through. 

Carla Lalli Music: Ohh. 

Rick Martinez: So it's not. It doesn't seem that new to me, but I really like the way that this video is constructed, and I would 100 percent eat that. 

Carla Lalli Music: All right. So final verdict?  

Rick Martinez: Rad Fad. 

Carla Lalli Music: Yay.

Rick Martinez: Yay. And that's it for this week's episode of Borderline Salty. 

Carla Lalli Music: You can find recipes and recommendations from this week's episode in the show notes. 

Rick Martinez: And if you have a question or a fear, you want us to help you through. You can always leave us a voicemail at eight three three four three three food. 

Carla Lalli Music: That number again is eight three three four three three three six six three. 

Rick Martinez: Borderline Salty is an original production by Pineapple Street Studios, wer're your hosts, I'm Rick Martinez. 

Carla Lalli Music: And I'm Carla Lalli Music, you can find our social handles in the show notes for this episode. 

Rick Martinez: Natalie Brennan is our lead producer. 

Carla Lalli Music: Janelle Anderson is our producer. 

Rick Martinez: Our managing producer is Agerenesh Ashagre. 

Carla Lalli Music: Our assistant producer is Mari Orozco. 

Rick Martinez: Our head of sound and engineering is Raj Makhija. 

Carla Lalli Music: Mixing and engineering by Davey Sumner and Jason Richards. 

Rick Martinez: Our assistant engineers are Sharon Bardales and Jade Brooks. 

Carla Lalli Music: Legal services for Pineapple Street are provided by Bianca Grimshaw at Granderson DeRoche.

Rick Martinez: Our executive producers are Max Linsky and Jenna Weiss-Berman. 

Carla Lalli Music: We appreciate Alexandra, Holly, Margarita and Alex for calling in this week. 

Rick Martinez: And thanks to you for listening. Talk to you next week. Bye! 

Carla Lalli Music: Bye! Adios. 

Rick Martinez: Love ya, mean it. 

Carla Lalli Music: Holler at me. 

Rick Martinez: Ring a ding ding. 

Carla Lalli Music: Hello? I mean goodbye.