BORDERLINE SALTY

On this episode of Borderline Salty, hosts Rick Martinez and Carla Lalli Music discuss getting to a perfectly textured salsa verde, where to find their favorite peppers, and how to overcome the fear of frying. 

Also, the latest Rad Fad/Bad Fad contender: pasta chips. 

This week’s recipe book: 

As always, we’d love to hear about your cooking conundrums at 833-433-FOOD (3663). 

Find us on Instagram @borderlinesalty

Find full episode transcripts and more about the podcast on our website borderlinesalty.fm. 

If you can’t get enough of our hosts – we don’t blame you! Subscribe to Carla's newsletters here and find links to her Instagram and YouTube channel at www.carlalallimusic.com. 

You can order Rick’s cookbook “Mi Cocina: Recipes and Rapture from My Kitchen in Mexico  here, watch the companion Mi Cocina video series here, and find all of his socials at www.rick-martinez.com

EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION

Rick Martinez: Hi, I'm Rick Martinez, I am a cookbook author, professional eater, and I eat mangoes every single day. 

Carla Lalli Music: And I'm Carla Lalli Music. I'm also a cookbook author, video host, and currently going through a Diet Coke phase. 

Rick Martinez: And this is Borderline Salty, the show where we take your calls, boost your confidence and make you a better, smarter, happier cook. 

Carla Lalli Music: Today, we'll discuss the search for perfect hot peppers, salsa verde techniques and one of my personal favorite condiments: aioli. But before we get into all that, Rick, tell me something good. 

Rick Martinez: I had the most incredible breakfast this week, so I went to get my nails done, and the salon is right next to this bakery that has the most incredible, buttery, flaky, big, beautiful croissants. And I was like, You know what? I just need to treat myself because, you know, because I had just gotten my nails done. So why not go stop and get croissants or four of them? So I went in, got my croissants and my, my favorite breakfast, like, it's just so simple. It's just beautifully scrambled eggs with a little bit of butter and salt, and then a heated croissant. And it's it's just so simple, but that's what I love because you can really taste the butter both in the croissant and then the eggs. And to me, they just pair so well together. The textures are very different and it just makes me so incredibly happy. But I mean, why wouldn't a breakfast full of butter make you happy? 

Carla Lalli Music: You do love a good breakfast. 

Rick Martinez: I love a good breakfast. And when there's butter involved, even better. So, Carla, why don't you tell me something good? 

Carla Lalli Music: Well, this week I had such a sweet little afternoon with my younger son Cosmo, and we had to go to the Upper West Side for a doctor's appointment. So we had already planned in advance that we were going to play hooky. So this is like parent-condoned hooky. You're not going to have to go back to school afterwards and ended up in this place called Broadway restaurant that is stuck in time in like the best old New York kind of way. Like has not had the update, you know what I mean? The vinyl booths and the horseshoe shaped counter with stools and like, we just had the cutest lunch and he ordered a cheeseburger and I got my feta spinach omelet and fries, and our waitress was like 70, probably. And he was like, Wow, she was taking care of that whole room by herself. Did you see that? Like she had all the tables and the end of that, he was like, I hope you left her a big fat tip. And I was like, You know what Cos? I did. It was just so cute that like, he had that thought. I don't know. We just had a really, really nice time and then took the subway home. 

Rick Martinez: That is so sweet. I love places like that. 

Carla Lalli Music: Yeah.

Rick Martinez: You're walking into a completely different era and nothing, whatever, whatever's happening to you on the outside just goes away and you're just in that moment. It's so beautiful. 

Carla Lalli Music: Yeah, it really felt like us stolen. Like the whole thing felt like a stolen moment because he should have been in school and I should have been working. But, you know, so you get this like, it's like, this wouldn't have happened if we didn't make it happen kind of feeling. And then I fell asleep on his shoulder on the subway home. He was like, Mom? 

Rick Martinez: That is so adorable.  

Carla Lalli Music: I was like, I'm awake, but I'm asleep. This is a thing that you'll learn how to do as well. And on that sweet note, let's dove into these questions. 

Caller 1: Hi, my name is Sal Muñoz, and I am calling about my salsa verde. I'm a proud Mexican-American, and I've been trying to recreate my parents' salsa verde for years, and every time that I try to do it, it always comes out gummy, very gelatinous. I've tried [unclear] tomatillos. I've tried different types of [unclear]. I've tried, including the onion. I've tried putting in the onion raw, putting it in roasted, leaving it out entirely. It has not worked, and I don't know how to address it. So if you could help me out with that, I would really appreciate it. 

Rick Martinez: Great question. 

Carla Lalli Music: Yeah.

Rick Martinez: I think part of it is, you know, the way that you're you're mixing or blending them. A lot of fruits will do this. And so I think with salsas is, what I always tell people is if you're going to blend it, which there's no reason why you shouldn't, but make sure that you always blend it low and quickly. Like, don't over blend for many reasons, one of which is if you blend it on high speeds, you're going to get a lot of air incorporated into it. And it's going to taste more like a smoothie as opposed to a salsa, 

Carla Lalli Music: Yeah, I hate that, I hate that. 

Rick Martinez: And I really like chunky also. So you can try, you know, blending at a really low speed for a short amount of time, just throw everything in and blend it up. Or you can do it in a mochette there or use a potato smasher or beans masher. Use a fork. And that should alleviate any sort of gelatinous issues you might have. 

Carla Lalli Music: Yeah, I think all of that is really great advice. If there's one key phrase that came out of your mouth, it's 'I like chunky' so that just remember that Sal, but also what I also thought about while he was talking was, you know, sometimes with these family recipes, when you make them yourself, they're never as good as what you remember when that other person made them for you. And like, it's possible that the one that he was having the whole time did have a slightly gelatinous quality to it. But because it was like this familiar thing that he knew that he loved and wasn't scrutinizing and judging like might not have even noticed. So, you know, the other thing is like when you are making these recipes for yourself to to lower that standard of comparing it to, you know, this legend in your family who used to make it for you because like, maybe it was always gelatinous and it was fine because you weren't like being so hard on yourself. 

Rick Martinez:  And I mean, or I know this happens a lot in my family, like, you know, they'll tell you what you, what they think is in it, and then they just forget a step or they forget an ingredient or, you know, and it's like --

Carla Lalli Music: Totally.

Rick Martinez: Unless you're standing there, watching them and recording exactly what they're doing, you know, it's very likely that you're going to miss some step or something that they do that they've done for 40 years that they think is completely irrelevant or unnecessary is actually really necessary. 

Carla Lalli Music: Yeah. And then you're like, Whoa, whoa, whoa. What was that? What was that like? Oh, this this just my like one special thing I do that I don't tell anybody about and yours didn't come out right? Oh, oh, I don't know why. 

Rick Martinez: You pull out the molcajete and like, jump on one foot and, you know, throw some salt over your shoulder. 

Carla Lalli Music: Yeah, that's a classic Italian grandma thing, too. They're like, Oh, your sauce didn't come out as good as mine? I don't know why. 

Rick Martinez: So that might be a deliberate omission. 

Carla Lalli Music: Right.

Rick Martinez: Hello. You're on the line with Rick and Carla. 

Caller 2: Hi, my name is Dulce. My question is I never know how much salt to put into raw meat, it's either always really salty or not enough salt. I don't think I have that sixth sense to know when to stop or when to add more. So if you can just kind of give me a few tips of, I don't know, just anything will help. 

Carla Lalli Music: This is a great question. It's so important, and it's not a sixth sense at all. It's just food chemistry. 

Rick Martinez: Totally. Yeah. And I also think it's like just a general rule of thumb. So my rule of thumb is one teaspoon kosher salt. And typically it's it's Diamond Crystal, which is four grams of salt per pound of meat or vegetable. 

Carla Lalli Music: Can you tell Rick just developed an entire cookbook and his gram measurements of salt? If you do have Morton's or if you're using a fine salt, don't go crazy trying to find Diamond because sometimes it just depends where you live. Cut that amount in half, so it'd be a half teaspoon per pound or, I guess, per quart. And then as far as developing sort of the feel of it or being more confident in your salting in general, I would say stick with one salt and just become comfortable with the salt that you use, right? Pick the salt that works for you, for your budget, for availability, for whatever it is and use it consistently. 

Rick Martinez: Yeah, I think part of what people mistake is necessarily a sixth sense. It might be this, you know, you see chefs all the time, like they take a pinch of salt and they throw it in, or they'll take two or three pinches, and then it's like seasoned perfectly. Part of that is knowing how much salt is actually in your pinch. So I know that a normal pinch for me is about a quarter teaspoon and a big pinch is about a half teaspoon. And it's because I have, I've actually measured that. So you can do that either on a scale and you'll know more accurately to the gram, like what your pinch is or you can just kind of eyeball like put a quarter teaspoon of salt on your countertop and then grab a pinch and then just kind of look like, is it, does it look like it's about that, you know? And then you can actually even try and put it in the spoon. But having that level of awareness of like, what's in your hand at that moment will help you a lot. 

Carla Lalli Music: Yeah, obviously you can't do this with raw meat, but tasting as you go. So go slow, go gradual, salt at every sort of step of the recipe. And it would be very hard to under-salt if you're salting and tasting as you go and you just want to train yourself to stop before it's too salty. So, yeah, we're not telling you to like, lick a burger, but you know, as far as for a salt goes, as far as salt goes. 

Rick Martinez: If the mood strikes, lick away. 

Carla Lalli Music: Yeah. 

Rick Martinez:  Who are we to stop you? 

Carla Lalli Music: Who are we to stop you? Borderline Salty, you've reached us during working hours. 

Caller 3: Hi, my name is Natalie. So I always find different recipes that call for different type of hot peppers. And my grocery stores really only have jalapeños. So what sources do you trust, possibly online, to find these types of peppers? Do you always have to get them fresh or can you rehydrate certain peppers, [unclear] would be appreciated? Thank you so much. 

Carla Lalli Music: I have bad news for Natalie. She's going to have to move, so I'm going to recommend like places I've traveled and been blown away by the chili selection like Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, Texas. You could join Rick in Mazatlan, I'm sure. But yeah, I had kind of the same problem here jalapeño, serrano, the occasional red fresno. And I'm picking up and I'm heading out. 

Rick Martinez: OK, so Natalie, before you call the real estate agent and start listing your house, we'll try and give you at least a few things that you can do before that happens. I personally don't have any sources for fresh peppers online. I don't know. Like, I'm a bit skeptical there are probably some growers out there that do ship day of I just don't know that I trust the carriers to get them to me in adequate time. And but anyway, that said, I'm actually a bigger fan of dried peppers online because those you can find some really great sources for really amazing peppers. Rancho Gordo has some chilies online. Colossians you can buy online dual you can buy online. The chilis that I always have in my pantry at all times are guajillo, ancho, pacilla, morita or Chipotle, pascabel, and chili de arbol. And with those chilies, I can make just about any Mexican dish and every culture every country has, you know, that uses a lot of hot peppers is going to have like sort of the fundamentals of chilies that are used in their cuisine. And so you can shop for those depending on like what it is that you really like making. And then just keep those stocked and you'll get the spice. You'll get the flavor without having to search for something that's fresh. But I also think that you might want to also explore your community because you might find that there is a Latin market or an Asian market or even the farmer's market.

Carla Lalli Music: Yup.

Rick Martinez: Going to an Asian market or going to the farmer's market and talking to different farmers, they may know of people that grow peppers or if there is a restaurant that you frequent that let's say that's a Mexican restaurant and you like their salsas or you like some of the dishes and you know that there are certain peppers in there. Talk to them, talk to the chefs. You might actually be able to buy directly from the restaurant. 

Carla Lalli Music: I think also to that point, like even at a regular grocery store, make friends with the produce manager and they might bring it in just for you. They might buy the smallest quantity and then put it out there and see if it sells. So let your market know that you're in the market. 

Rick Martinez: Yeah. And actually, to that point, even the larger retailers like let's say that there's a chain in your city that has multiple locations all over town. Just because your grocery store that you normally shop at doesn't carry it, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist in that city. Right. So if you ask, you know, the produce manager or the one of the assistant managers or the manager of the store like, Hey, do you think that another store might carry these chilis? It might be that the store that's located in a predominantly Latin or Asian part of the city will carry that chili. So just ask and talk to people. 

Carla Lalli Music: Yeah. 

Rick Martinez: Line two, you're on. 

Caller 4: Hi, Carla and Rick. This is Sarah. I was just calling to let you know that I'm very scared about at home frying. I just don't know what to do with the frying oil after the fact. Can you save it if you have to discard it? What you do with it? Anyway, it prevents me from making a lot of things that I would like to make at my home kitchen. 

Rick Martinez:  So what I do is I have a Dutch oven to fry in because it's seasons it while you're actually frying, but also the main thing is it has higher walls. So even if I'm deep frying where I need, you know, like a full bottle of oil, 32 ounces of oil, or it needs to come up halfway up the sides, you still have a good three to four inches above the rim of the pot to prevent the oil from splattering out onto the stove and onto the counter or yourself. But when I'm done with oil, I make sure that the oil is completely cold. Just leave it out overnight. Don't touch it. There's no reason to touch hot oil. I save the bottles from that the oil came in and then just put a funnel in it and pour the cold oil back into the bottle, put the lid on it, and then you can either throw it away or depending on what city you live in, there are companies that will take and dispose of used oil. So to me, that's the easiest way to deal with the old oil problem. 

Carla Lalli Music: Yeah, I think the two reasons people are afraid to fry at home is splattering, which high walls, deep pot, high walls. Getting oil on you is like obviously part of that. And then, yeah, hot oil is dangerous, right? You don't want to accidentally knock it off the stove. And so the best way to discard it is to do nothing with it until it is 100 percent cooled down. So I don't even I just push that pan to the back burner, let it set off heat until the next day before straining it and kind of deciding, could I use this again or does it have to go? 

Rick Martinez: Yeah. One other thing that I normally do and I write this into recipes you want to lay whatever it is that you're frying away from you so that you're dropping it into the oil and you're laying it down and you're moving it away from your body so that if you drop whatever it is, the oil will splash away from you and hit your wall or your backsplash and not you. 

Carla Lalli Music: Next, caller, please. 

Caller 5: Hello. So my name is Tammy, and I recently wanted to make the scuttlebutt sandwich from this restaurant that's closed in Brooklyn called Saltie. Maybe you've heard of it. I want to recreate the sandwich from scratch. All the different ingredients focaccia to [unclear] beets, and one of them was the aioli. I went through about 16 dollars of olive oil. I tried it twice. I used the food processor and both times it just did not emulsify. It came out way to too liquity. I don't really know what the problem was, though. That was a bummer. I decided to just use mayo instead and dress up my mayo. I guess my question is like if it's necessary to make your own daily at that point? I'll leave it there for now. And thanks! 

Carla Lalli Music: Yeah, I just want to start by saying I used to love going to Saltie, which was Caroline Fidanza sandwich restaurant, R.I.P.. And the scuttlebutt was my favorite sandwich to get there.

Rick Martinez: Oh wow.

Carla Lalli Music: Yeah, I feel cosmically linked to Tammy because I could totally understand why you would want to recreate this. It's delicious. 

Rick Martinez:  So I have made aoli in a food processor or rather a giant robocoup in a restaurant at ABC Kitchen. And I think it's definitely a skill that you acquire. 

Carla Lalli Music: Yeah.

Rick Martinez: You have to like, be very aware of your machine, but also if you're only using one or two yolks, a lot of times the blades can't actually mix the yolk with the oil. And so what ends up happening is the blade just spins over the top of the yolk. So you're actually not emulsifying anything because nothing is actually moving. And so that could possibly be one of the reasons why her machine's not working. Whereas if you're in a restaurant and you're using, you know, like 50 yolks, well obviously it's the blades are going to move the yolks around, and that might be part of the issue that she's having. 

Carla Lalli Music: Yeah, to back up a second, aioli is mayonnaise and mayonnaise is aoli, and the whole ratio that's important is the ratio between the yolks and the oil because the yolks contain fat and liquid, and they are the reason why the oil has something to bind to. And so the more oil that you can work into a yolk, the thicker your aioli is going to be. I actually can't make aioli in a blender or in a food processor. I fail every time. And the most dependable way for me to make them is by hand. 

Rick Martinez: Yeah. So it's not you. It's the machine. So the only real reliable way to actually create the emulsification is to actually get a whisk and just go in there. 

Carla Lalli Music: Yeah, be the machine, Tammy.

Rick Martinez: Yeah, be the machine, as you're whisking, you'll actually feel the texture and the weight against the whisk. And then once you've mastered that, then you'll be in a situation where you can drop it into a blender or an immersion blender or food processor, and you'll know exactly what it's supposed to be happening. 

Carla Lalli Music: So to get back to the second part of her question should use mayo or is it worth it to make aioli? It really depends like what you're going to do with that condiment. 

Rick Martinez: Right, do it. mean, shout out to Hellman's. I feel like Hellmann's is great. It's really great. 

Carla Lalli Music: Great stuff. 

Rick Martinez: Now that said, I do love making a good aoli.

Carla Lalli Music: Same. 

Rick Martinez: But I mean, it's like it's a special occasion thing. I'm not like, you know, whipping it up for like my ham sandwich. 

Carla Lalli Music: 100 percent. That's totally fine, especially if you're making pickled beets and hard-boiled eggs. And maybe you made the focaccia like just flavor the mayonnaise. 

Rick Martinez:  Who's going to know? 

Carla Lalli Music: Before we go, it's time to dove into the deep, wide world of the World Wide Web. That's right, it's time for Rad Fad or Bad Fad? All right, Rick, I'm about to play a TikTok for you that I saw last week and I literally cannot stop thinking about. 

Tik Tok Video: So you want to make a [unclear], but you don't have an air fryer? Let me show you how to make it in the oven. First off, you boil pasta on a baking sheet and then drizzle with a little bit of olive oil. Season with salt, pepper and oregano and then grated parmesan cheese. Bake at 425 degrees for eight minutes and then toss and bake again for another five minutes. And my cheese sauce is two tablespoons of butter, half cup of heavy cream, one and a half cups of cheese, and a little bit of salt and garlic powder. And this is what I call pasta chips for the mac and cheese dip. 

Rick Martinez:  Oh my god. Wow. I think that might be the first TikTok trend that I'm just like, I'm jumping on board right now, like. 

Carla Lalli Music: Right away, right? 

Rick Martinez: Yeah. Like, I mean, Rad Fad, the end. 

Carla Lalli Music: So for everyone at home who did not have the quite tantalizing visuals, what we're seeing is a huge party platter of what looks to be like deep fried, caramelized rigatoni and in the center of the platter is just an ooey gooey like what you wish the nacho cheese sauce at the stadium would actually be. This looks really gooey. 

Rick Martinez: I mean, OK, let's just let's break it down. So what we're talking about is carbs and dairy fat. 

Carla Lalli Music: Yeah. 

Rick Martinez: So that sounds, you know, whether it's bread and butter, cheese and crackers or fried pasta and gooey cheese sauce like what is not to love? 

Carla Lalli Music: I know. And that crunch.

Rick Martinez: The crunch and the color like I'm I'm really impressed by by everything that she did like. There was nothing in that that I found like anything other than joyful and brilliant. Also, kudos to this person. I love that she actually said, if you don't have an air fryer, you can do it in the oven, which just adds a little bit more reinforcement to why you don't actually need an air fryer. Just use your oven. 

Carla Lalli Music:Yep, it's what we always say high heat, in the oven. Good as gold. All right. I feel like I don't even have to ask, but pasta chip with a mac and cheese dip. Rick, is it a rad fad or bad fad? 

Rick Martinez:  Let me think about this for a second. Rad Fad.

Carla Lalli Music: Bellissima. Bravo, pasto Yay! 

Rick Martinez:  And that's it for this week's episode of Borderline Salty. But don't you worry. We'll be back next week. 

Carla Lalli Music: In the meantime, you can find recipes and recommendations from this week's episode in our show notes. 

Rick Martinez:  If you have a question or a fear, you want us to help you through. You can always leave us a voicemail at eight three three four three three food. 

Carla Lalli Music: Our number again is eight three three four three three three six six three. 

Rick Martinez: Borderline Salty is an original production by Pineapple Street Studios, we’re your hosts, I'm Rick Martinez

Carla Lalli Music: And I'm Carla Lalli Music. You can find links to our work in the show notes for this episode. 

Rick Martinez: Natalie Brennan is our lead producer. 

Carla Lalli Music:Janelle Anderson is our producer. 

Rick Martinez:  Our managing producer is Agarenesh Ashagre. 

Carla Lalli Music: Our assistant producer is Mari Orozco. 

Rick Martinez:  Our Head of sound and engineering is Raj Makhija. 

Carla Lalli Music: Mixing and engineering by Davey Sumner and Jason Richards.

Rick Martinez: Our assistant engineers are Sharon Bardales and Jade Brooks.

Carla Lalli Music: Legal services for Pineapple Street are provided by Bianca Grimshaw at Granderson Des Rochers. 

Rick Martinez: Our executive producers are Max Linsky and Jenna Weiss-Berman. 

Carla Lalli Music:We appreciate Dulce, Sarah, Sal, Natalie and Tammy for calling in this week. 

Rick Martinez: And thanks to you for listening. Talk to you next week. 

Carla Lalli Music:Ciao, ciao! 

Rick Martinez: Adios.

Carla Lalli Music: Bye-Bye. 

Rick Martinez: Hasta la pasta. 

Carla Lalli Music: Don't let the door hit on the way out. 

Rick Martinez: Bam!